We seem to have discarded the subject of what might be desirable on the Model 998?


Why is a lack of zone2/3 support on entry-level receiver models relevant to this discussion? I never expected lower end gear to have a zone 2 output (much less a zone 3 output). That is something that has trickled down the product lines a bit compared to the past, but it has always been something that you had to spend a bit extra to get if you wanted it. And on those higher-end models that did offer it, zone 2 support has always been stereo only and purely analog in nature. I would expect there to be a zone 2 output on the Model 998, and I would expect it to be analog only.


The UMC-1 is of interest to a lot of people specifically because it is much less expensive than most surround processors, more in line price-wise with mid-level receivers. For surround processors, it is the entry level (based mainly on price). If they can get the unit's listed features all working well, it could be a nice piece of gear and well-suited to many applications. It isn't especially relevant to discussion of the Model 998, though.

The Onkyo 608 retails for $600 and sells for under $500 online. The UMC-1 retails for $700. Considering the fact that the UMC-1 costs at least $100 more and is a different category of product (surround processor rather than surround receiver, thus without any amps tied up in the price tag) I would expect there to be some things missing from the 608 compared to the UMC-1. One omission is pre-amp outputs. Onkyo wants you to spend a bit more and buy the 707 to get pre-amp outputs, as the transition between 6xx and 7xx models is a significant one for them. Receiver manufacturers have been doing that for a long, long time. As for saying that they have similar layouts, I would have to say that this 608 rear panel and this UMC-1 rear panel don't have much in common. Both have five HDMI inputs on the rear panel, one HDMI output, and AM/FM tuners. Past that, the similarities dry up pretty fast. The 608 lacks a 7.1 analog input, pre-amp outputs, detachable power cord, 12V trigger, and IR input/output (although it has Onkyo's "RI" port - note the lack of "HD" at the end - and Sirius support). The UMC-1 has an extra component input, one less composite video input, more coaxial and optical inputs, s-video inputs, several 12V triggers, and IR in and out.

If your point is to suggest that the internal hardware in the 608 is going to wind up in a surround processor, I'd be interested in some specific evidence to support it. It sure didn't end up in the UMC-1, since the two rear panels share no commonality in layout. Onkyo has consistently based their surround processors on their top-of-the-line surround receivers, but if you compare the rear panel of the 607 and 608 to the rear panel of the 5007 you will find that there are no points of similarity that would suggest they are using the same boards in both products. They even use different DAC chips and different video processing chips, meaning that the analog stages and video boards are different designs. There may be some firmware code that carries over across multiple products, but I doubt that any signal-path components are common between the two products.


Actually, since the second zone outputs generally have their own volume control, you can simply get a stereo power amp (even something modest like this little amp) to power the speakers in that second zone. If you had a stereo receiver lying around, it would also work. A surround receiver like the 608 is actually overkill for that application.


Again, if you look at Emotiva closely, you will find that the UMC-1 is marketed as their entry-level model. Had they launched it without the major bugs it has encountered, it would probably be a very successful product in that market by now. It may still do well, if it can get debugged in a timely manner. If you want a higher-end product from Emotiva, you need to wait for the XMC-1. That will be the replacement for their old DMC-1 (a repackaged Sunfire design).

If you are talking about what Outlaw will be offering with the Model 998, that's a different story. The Model 998 is not intended to be comparable to the UMC-1. Outlaw is keeping details under wraps at this stage (a wise course of action) but what they've described is an updated version of the Model 990 from a performance standpoint with a very current feature set. It won't compete on features and performance with products costing five times as much, but it can be expected to offer a lot of performance for the money while also being economically feasible for a lot more people and nicely equipped on features. By the way, even those super-expensive units aren't going to do many of the things that you have suggested in this thread.


Within reason is the key. Within reason. It applies to everybody, big boys included. I agree with Kenm80's comment about being able to use the numerous HDMI ports and still having inputs available to use some component and legacy video connections. That means smart design of the user interface and some thoughtful balance of HDMI, component video, composite video, s-video, digital audio, and analog audio connections. But I will say again: if you want to connect two decades worth of game consoles to a home theater at the same time, you will not find anyone building a modern surround processor with enough composite video and stereo analog audio inputs to accommodate them all directly. The entire concept is unreasonable. If you want to do that, you must accept that there will be external switching. I understand why it appeals to you, but it isn't justifiable for a processor design to include all of that. That's why I've tried repeatedly to suggest solutions that might minimize the external switching required.


You completely lost me here. What old software are you talking about? How can new codecs process old codecs? Codecs don't process other codecs.

If you are talking about the new lossless audio codecs, I think legacy support has already been pretty gracefully addressed. Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD soundtracks both contain core Dolby Digital and DTS tracks that provide legacy audio support via coaxial or optical. If you are talking about the control options we've discussed at some length, that's more related to a lack of industry standards: proprietary control connections ("RI") vs. more generic IR connections, different implementations of IR connections, and the stupid proprietary implementations of CEC ("RIHD" and "Viera Link" and all the other names). If you are talking about 12V DC triggers, there is again no official industry standard, but the 0-12V format is pretty prevalent and frankly works well enough to be a successful "unofficial" standard. If you are talking about legacy hardware that only offers composite video and stereo analog audio, the issue is totally unrelated to software or any codecs. It is entirely a matter of what the old hardware offers for connectivity.