jt, my educated approach to telling if a sub is good or not, is better than any approach you may have because I HAVE owned/demoed in my home so many different subs to know the differences between good and bad ones, and to know that i am not fine with subs built into my mains as my only sub. so not only do i understand the specs, i can translate them, user input, and personal experience to come up with a conclusion. you on the other hand are just sitting on the sidelines nitpicking, with no reference of what makes a quality subwoofer, rehashing what has been said already. come up with something helpful/useful/original to let people decide what is a good product for them; saying go listen to it or read professional (electronically tested at least) reviews is great for products that you can do that with, however it is not always an option. you have offered no method to draw a conclusion on something when the above cannot be met, you are merely criticizing when others do it. it is a common theme in your posting, and frankly it is unnecessary to restate the obvious. i dont think the world needs another John Madden voice.