Many thanks to all that have contributed to this topic... this has the richest, most informative. and most relevant discussion I can remember in any audio forum. Although I am not shocked, I am in awe of the level of technical knowledge and uncommon sense displayed by so many of the Gunslingers here.

Quote:
Originally posted by soundhound:
...The closer the notes being played are to the bass crossover frequency, the worse this disembodiment of the fundamental from it's harmonics will be, as the phase difference between the two will be greater due to the higher frequency...


Quote:
Originally posted by bossobass:
...80 hz is too high for a subwoofer.
One subwoofer to reintegrate redirected bass into the soundfield is enough when the LP point is around 40-60hz.
The second subwoofer is needed for a discrete LFE signal, as the summing of LFE with redirected bass is where almost all bad things happen (intermod distortion, too much demand placed on a single sub system, crossover holes/humps, loss of any chance at stereo bass, phase problems, etc)...
...discrete LFE output (and subsequently, crossover, phase and delay processing of same) is the most important, because, only then can you properly set up any sort of subwoofer system for redirected bass.


I have some basic questions concerning the Stereo Sub set-up, and the configurations suggested by SH, Bossobase and others...

Question #1: Does the inclusion of an Outlaw ICBM provide additional benefits to a Stereo Sub configuration, over and above the use of the 950 alone? The LFE Mix control seems to be one benefit, but it becomes irrelevant if the LFE channel is made discrete.

Question #2: Assuming the mixing of the LFE signal with redirected bass to Left and Right Stereo Subs is potentially as serious as bosobase suggests, would it make sense to configure a system with three (3) subs? Two subs dedicated to the redirected bass from the 5.0 signal; and one (possibly more) dedicated to the LFE (0.1) signal...

My configuration currently uses stereo subs which are located directly adjacent to (and aligned with the face of) Front Left and Front Right floor standing speakers. I am using an ICBM to send redirected bass to the Stereo Subs, and mix in the LFE signal as it is designed. Otherwise, it is similar to the set-up that SH suggested in the opening post.

Question #3: Is a potential solution (system improvement) as simple as this?...
a) Unplug the LFE input to the ICBM, and stick it in a new dedicated Sub.

With all speakers set to Large, everything should work, with no cross contamination between the full range (up to 150Hz) LFE signal, and the redirected bass to the Stereo Subs (which are crossed over at 60Hz). Yes? No, I think...

Question #4: How to overcome the Outlaw 6-Channel Bypass Mode "base management" algorithm?... The 6-Channel Bypass Mode sums redirected bass (at a fixed 80Hz crossover point) from the 5.0 channel signal and mixes (sums) this with the LFE signal. The full range 5.0 signal can be sent to the speakers by turning Bass Management "Off," but the Outlaw LFE output is not suitable to the purpose of separating the LFE from the rest of the system signal as it still contains the under 80Hz signal from the 5.0 channels. What to do, what to do? Perhaps... but I don't know...
a) An A/B switch for the low level LFE signal that allows the user to bypass the 950's Sub I/O processing section(s), therefore connecting the dedicated LFE sub directly to the source. But... this would take out the 950's control of the LFE channel volume. What a mess! The LFE signal level would need to be constantly adjusted when changing the volume in 6-Channel Bypass Mode and then again when switching back to the other source modes.

It would probably easier to bypass the Outlaw 6-Channel Bypass Mode altogether. Perhaps someone could suggest a more simple product alternative that could perform this purpose... or a better overall system configuration? I am aware that there are Pre-Pro's that allow the user to maintain a discrete LFE channel, with separate outputs for stereo subs dedicated to redirected bass. This is a nice feature of Lexicon's MC-12(B or no B) and the new Parasound Halo C1 unit.

I am with other Outlaw owners who are looking forward (with our hands together) to the next generation of the 950. Bass management that provides significantly more flexibility in system configuration would be first on my wish list. The ability to assign individual settings for each source a very close second. Even though I don't like the logo... I would silk screen it on my front door if the Outlaws keep their eye on performance enhancements that we can enjoy in a dimly lit room.

Again, thank you all for interesting reading...


P.S.: I have found that it becomes especially beneficial to have good sound isolation spikes for the sub and the Main Left and Right speakers when they are placed so close together as they are in my system.

[This message has been edited by AGAssarsson (edited April 29, 2003).]