What, not enough bluster and boasting? I can tweak that if you think it needs some juice.

aka "Editing". Trust me, I was doing you and everyone else a favour. The "government" was starting to get interested in your runaway conspiracy rant against the HFSG bot. And I'm sure you know what kind of trouble that can bring on...

I disagree. I really don't have to go through all those machinations to illustrate just how stupid most of these responses are, nor do I need to have "hopes of proving it". I think they're pretty damn self-evident, really. In fact, I'm amazed at how stupid some of my responses have been, and when I point that out, that's just my natural reaction (as in "Oh my God, you CAN'T be that stupid!"). I will also point out that no one has ever been able to prove me wrong about that in any of those reactions . Simply getting offended because I point out how stupid people's remarks or thinking is, doesn't prove that I'm wrong about that. You do it to yourselves, you do.

You just refuse to see how ignorant you dorks are, no matter how many times that fact is proven. I don't even care how "formally educated" you are, I'm not even talking about that. I'm talking for instance about the fact that you are continually using the principles of "good science" to support and defend your arguments that the Belt/MD products don't work. Yet in the most unscientific fashion imaginable, or utilizing principles of "bad science", you are drawing conclusions about all those products, without ever having subjected them to empirical trials, let alone DBT's. And none of you know a g-d thing about them, that much has been made crystal-clear. Especially if you're arguing against theories of "time travel and orgone energy" wrt these products. As if that isn't bad enough, you go on to speculate about people (ie. me, HifiSoundGuy and GoodSound), and you draw conclusions based on your ignorant speculations.

No, I have another theory, Mr. Gonk. The reason I can't find intelligent debate, is not because no one here is intelligent enough to have an intelligent debate. It's because no one here is intelligent enough to consider that there may be something to debate, that all these products have true merit. You've all made up your minds that these products don't work. We've seen many months of this, what other evidence is needed? Why you admitted this yourself just today when you agreed that people here believe the products are a "sham" and it is expected they will always maintain that belief. Despite having never actually tried them.... So that leaves mockery and ridicule (and attempts to "debunk" anything I say, even if I say something obvious like.... oh... "George Bush is a liar").


...Are you trying to say that the people here are dumb as a post?....

I wrote a lot of serious arguments to you, which you obviously couldn't argue against. So what did you do, you chopped out huge forests, if you even responded to them at all. And then you come at me with this conspiratorial crap about HifiSoundGuy, like as if it justifies your abusive behaviour toward him, in which you and your friends not only mocked and ridiculed this guy for hundreds of posts on end, but accused him and the manufacturers of the products he advocated as frauds and rip off artists. Even if your crackpot conspiracy theories are correct (and it seems to have eluded you that I pretty much agreed with them recently), and you have not and can not prove anything is true on your mere speculation, that still doesn't justify your rude and uncivilized behaviour. And all it does in fact is attract dogs of war like me.....

You know, I would have thought that myself. Until I met your pals Sluggo and Jason J.....


Oh, I apologize for snipping out one or two lines in your posts. I thought that was acceptable, since you've shown you have no problem snipping out 95% of mine. Whether HFSG ordered Sonicaps or a receiver, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?? I snipped all that pointless conspiratorial crap out in order to make the point that none of it was relevant to your claim about his motivations, since it's all speculation. I thought I explained that to you already? Nor was it relevant to any of my claims, which were made for you to address, and which you by and large "chopped out" or "skipped over" as you like to say.


So what if HFSG also used the link? (Which I agree, didn't make much sense since he was trying to advocate the concept of orgone energy while referencing a skeptic's page on the subject.... But I never said he was the sharpest tack in the box, did I...). You were still the one making the point that orgone energy was bogus, weren't you? Well I happen to have a lot of respect for the work of Wilhelm Reich, so you could say I took personal offense at your unsupported claim. And guess what, Gonk? AFAIC, it's STILL an unsupported claim! I've asked you to provide solid evidence for that, and "it's interesting" that all you can come up with in response is to tell me you got the link from HFSG. As though that excuses your fallacious remarks about orgone energy. Like everyone else here, you are obviously not prepared to ever admit you're wrong about anything, (or for that matter that you've done anything wrong), or that you have been defeated in an argument. That insecurity you have by the way, is the same reason that people are afraid to try Belt products or techniques. Admitting they work raises all kinds of insecurities sheep, I mean "people" have about what they have learned about the world and what they know of themselves. So they tend to "lose their coordinates", if you know what I mean.

I was familar with that reference on Audiogon. Listen carefully to what I asked you: "Show me where it is being marketed as such". A comment by a user who claims that Kaitt told him this on the phone is not, by any definition, "marketing". An advertisement or mention on MD's site of it being a time travel device would be "marketing". You who's done so much research on "guerrila marketing" should already know and appreciate the difference. And before you come back at me and say Kaitt implied it was correct by not refuting the remark, no, implication is not marketing either. "Served to confirm" is not a "confirmation" either, it's an interpretation. We don't know exactly what Kaitt said to the poster or precisely why he was displeased with what the poster wrote, we can only speculate. Remember the earlier problem I had with you speculating? I'm certainly not going to repeat that dirty process myself.

But its my point as well. Perhaps you didn't get it. No one can explain HFSG's comments because he doesn't know what he's talking about either. Why don't you try asking him what the hell "the increase of the vestigial within the listening room" means? I promise you, we'll -both- have a good laugh if he attempts to respond. That's because he's regurgitating verbatim what he lifted off the Audiogon site. As for this crap about "orgone energy", that's just a user on that site that came up with that. I believe he wrote it as a joke, which is the problem with people disseminating false information from speculation or mockery of products. People reading this site might think that Scientology is behind the clever little clock, if they are stupid enough to believe Sluggo's remarks about that.

My point is you're as much of a fool as you think HFSG is, for arguing the clock is bogus because it can't "time travel" and doesn't run on "orgone energy". All we know for sure is, the official explanation for how the clock works is... there is no official explanation. It's entirely possible that someone somewhere misunderstood something Kaitt was trying to explain about the clock, and now dozens of people later, including you, are totally misguided about how it functions. And disseminating false information around, making others equally as ignorant. (Though yes, I feel Geoff is partly to blame for that for not yet providing any answers himself).

I know from the description alone that users and audio journalists have given about the way the clock works, that it's a Belt product (by that, I mean it operates under the same Belt principles that all Belt products & techniques operate upon). Given what I know of Belt principles, I'm probably as unlikely to believe explanations of time travel and orgone energy for the clock, as you are. However, unlike you, I don't give rat's patootie how the clock works. It's an audio device, so the only question on the table should be, does it have a positive audible effect or not? I don't see too many people here asking that. But that's really the -only- thing they should be asking...

Why do you feel this is a pointless excercise, because I was able to defeat every single one of your arguments in this thread? (Except where I agreed with you of course). I don't think it's a pointless excercise, because I think I've been very successful in making my points, all of which have yet to be refuted by anyone here. They include:

* this entire thread has been about the relentless attack of both members, products and the manufacturers of those products, that the rest of the members here "feel" are bogus. Those attacks against members who have advocated the use of "fringe science" products
have included personal remarks, all manner of insults, mockery, ridicule, scorn, derision, contempt, and went so far as defamation of character attacks with accusations of fraudulence and shilling. Libel was also directed toward the manufacturers and engineers. Absolutely ZERO freaking evidence was given by ALL attackers here to support their claims, and absolutely NO ONE tried the products they were attacking, or even knew much about them.

If the "manouevres" you're complaining about is editing of posts, well let me tell you, you do that a -hell- of a lot more with mine than I've done with yours. And I only edit what truly is irrelevant tripe. I don't cut out huge, significant arguments, as you do with mine, because you already know you can't defeat them thru debate.

No I didn't really come here to defend him/her/it, I came here to defend the truth. You guys were kicking it around like a bloody football, and stomping all over it. What I wrote about HFSG is the truth, as I know it, and its ironic you'd have a problem with that, since you did your fair share of kicking him/her/it around yourself in this thread. Speaking of which, let me get this straight..... you don't have any problem with your buds mocking and deriding HFSG for several hundred posts, or even calling him a shill and a scammer, but you have a problem with any derision you perceive coming from me, right? Let me introduce you to a concept called "hypocrisy", which you and your colleagues seem to be thoroughly unfamiliar with....