Gonk wrote:

I'm not asking how you felt about that, I asked what your evidence was for dismissing the entire life's work of a very important psychologist and researcher. Which continues to this day, btw. Now instead of responding with valid evidence, you're trying to duck and cover, change the subject, and oh... wait, you gave me a link to the infamous Skeptic's Dictionary. Which to people like you stands as the Abslute TrVth to all there is in the world of science. In other words, if something has an entry in the Skeptic's Dictionary, then its obviously bogus science, right? And what does the SD use to back up your assertion that orgone is pseudo-science? The fact that in the 50's, the FDA burned Reich's books and declared it wasn't valid. That's right folks, the FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION. Those brilliant, unbiased agents who showed that they couldn't possibly have had any ulterior motives for actually burning a scientists research (first time in US history, btw). Despite the fact that Reich's work had nothing to do with either FOOD or DRUG.

Now, aren't YOU claiming that its -you- who is supposed to be the one who isn't dumb, naive and gullible here, between the two of us? I mean after all, you're an independent thinker, right? You don't just believe anything anyone hands you, right? And I'm a gullible audiophile who for 20 years has placeboed himself into thinking that all of Belt's products have an audible effect, right? But yet you think a one page entry in the Skeptics Dictionary citing a 1950's scandal with the FDA proves Reich, who studied under Freud no less, was a lifelong madman? Despite studies that showed otherwise? Despite the fact that the Chinese have studied similar phenomenon for thousands of years? Despite the fact that his work is contuing to be researched and utilized? And you're supposed to be the "smart one" in this group, right? The one all the other little sheep look up to for authorative knowledge on a given subject, because you've done all the research for the sheepies, correct?

What, you in error? How can that be possible? All the sheep look up to you to be right, as the authoritative leader on audio knowledge here. Because if you're wrong, then by their alignment with you, so are all the rest of the Outlaws here....


First of all, who said it was a "time travel device"? Please show me where it is being marketed as such. Second of all, what do you mean by that? Does it mean I can go back in time and order a milk shake with my burger, instead of a soda? And what's all this about "orgone energy" anyway? Where does the manufacturer claim it runs on orgone energy? I thought it uses a lithium battery!

I'm genuinely asking, because I genuinely do not know how the CLC works. I went on their site to find out, but there is no white paper on that product. And don't say I've been "defending the CLC", I never did that. I simply said I have reason to believe it works very similarly to a Belt device, since it is based on that device. Whether Kaitt did modifications to Belt's design to somehow make it work differently (with his unusual GSIC chips, I wouldn't put it past him), I don't know.

The difference between me and your typical dumb, mindless, arrogant audiophile sheep, is that I don't question the validity of something I don't even begin to understand. Nor do I pretend to understand something I don't begin to understand. Which is another way of saying, you can't question the validity of the CLC if you don't understand how it works.


Actually, I can live with that. It doesn't imply the science is bogus, but so long as you can live with quantum theory being "fringe science" (which is the hypotheses for some products), I can live with "fringe science" to describe the basis of alternative audio products.

Again, who is that "someone" who can't decide which "fringe science" the CLC operates on? HifisoundGuy? That guy could be a madman, for all I know. So could you, btw. All I know is I didn't see Wilhelm Reich mentioned anywhere on Machina Dynamica's site. So I regard anything that isn't officially on there to be speculative BS. Yes, including purported phone convos with the designer. Particularly since its obvious there are a lot of guys out there like you and Ritz who want to see this guy crumble, simply because you have an agenda against whatever you consider "snake oil merchants".

Now, I'm going to take the opportunity here to repeat that vile comment from your friend Ritz, whom you see fit to defend here, since you didn't want to:

Ritz says:

Ritz is clearly stating here that Kaitt is a rip off artist, who is defrauding people. If I was Geoff, I would take this ignorant bastard to court, el pronto. Ritz doesn't offer a SINGLE shred of evidence to support his libelous accusations. Just like you don't ever offer any evidence for yours. And all you've been able to offer in his defense, is that HifiSoundGuy said that one of Machina Dynamica's products, the CLC clock, works on both time travel and orgone energy. Which could just be HFSG's opinion. But even if it isn't, you haven't explained to me how it can't operate on both. You've just assumed that there can't be more than one scientific attribute, attributed to a device, and if there is, then it can be considered invalid hypothesis. Belt's hypotheses incorporate aspects from both the quantum domain and biology, which is about as different as orgone energy and time travel. So if you knew even the first thing about science, you'd realize what a dumb argument you're making here, in defense of your bud Ritz. In making this really-not-very-well-thought-out argument, you've just undermined your credibility further, and made your friend Ritz's comments seem even more vile.

Which is a pattern repeated elsewhere, so you sheep do spread out in great numbers, to be sure. The real "sham" however, as I see it, is the "other part of that repeating pattern you have locked yourselves into". By that, I mean that those other flocks of mindless sheep that have echoed every last one of your sentiments on this forum, also have this in common with you people: they too have no qualms about shoving their fat feet in their mouth by condemning products they've never tried. You people talk about "science" like as if you know something about it. But to "real" scientists, what you are doing by dismissing phenomena you know nothing about and have never experimented with is not in the least bit "scientific". The irony is, if all scientists were as stupid as the people we've seen in this thread, science would never progress.

I trust you mean by the "existence of the devices". Because so far, not a single person has tried any of them! You can't really claim to be "unswayed" by an audio device you've never even tested. At best, you can only claim to be "unswayed" by its theory. But as we've also seen, none of you know dick all about the theory either! And I will repeat that it doesn't matter to me, if people do or don't try the products. I'm simply here to make a statement about the members of this forum, to emphasize certain facts. (Consider it a social experiment...). Which are as follows:

* I want it on the record that no one here has tried any of the products you have all bashed, ridiculed, mocked and condemned.

* Not one of the armchair scientists here has even tried the free techniques I gave, which allow them to at least experiment with Beltist ideas (albeit in less effective ways than the commercial products). However, no one minds spending 60 times longer, typing out BS talking about the validity of the theories behind ideas that are readily verifiable, empirically.

* No one here has shown a single solitary factual basis for making libelous statements against Machina Dynamica and PWB, and for calling their products fraudulent.

* No one has apologized for such statements. The closest is Gonk who tried to make excuses for the libel of others (which I have defeated in debate).

* No one here has taken the time, or perhaps has the ability, to read and understand the theories behind the products they have bashed. (Judging by how many have the ability to extend their attention span long enough to even read my posts, it's plain to see why they have not read the materials on the manufacturer's sites. Sluggo gets a pass because he has officially admitted to being a retard).

Basically, what it looks like to me and my colleagues is, this is the audio hobbyist equivalent of the Trailer Park Boys movie. Its like the Trailer Trash Boys all got together to form an audio club, and start discussing their feelings and opinions about audio. Needless to say, facts only come along accidentally.....