Ok Gonk, so you're saying you set the player's center chan. to 'none' (or 'off' or whatever)... and play a DVD-A disc, the player ignores your 'center -none' setting and outputs the center info anyway? That's what you mean right?

Does it ignore this 'center -none' if you try DD or DTS?
Just trying to see if it's a DVD-A thing ONLY.


"If you want the ability to disable the Center and let the mains create a phantom, (although phantom is not addressed in the manual). This is what I tried."

Yep. Exactly.

"On the Outlaw while in 6-channel Direct, - playing a DVD-A ‘Woman on Top’. I tried disabling the center speaker in the Panny menu. I still got sound out of the center."

Hmmm... that sounds like what I think Gonk found with his. It ignores your 'center -none' setting it seems.

"I stopped and disabled the center channel thru the Outlaw setup. (Disabled in the panny & Outlaw menus). And this worked, I had no center."

The Outlaw shouldn't need to have it's settings changed for what I'm after. That'd just be turning off the center chan. audio.

"On a different disc, again in 6-channel Direct, “Night in Paris” DVD-A. I disabled the center channel in the Panny menu only, the Outlaw was on ‘Center small’. And this worked, I had no center.There seems to be differences between the discs themselves as to ‘how’ I get there."

Hmmm.. I don't get it. Seems like it worked that time. Weird.
-edit- Ohhhhh.... Maybe that disc has no center chan info.?? are you able to get center audio with that disc in any setting??
I forgot that many discs just don't have a center chan recorded.

"But on either discs one method or the other I could disable my center."

Turning it off on the Outlaw should either just shut off the center audio (no good), OR it's getting the DD version of the disc (defeating the point of it being a DVD-A disc), OR maybe the Outlaw is reprocessing the DVD-A signal to digital then you can hit it w/ full bass manag., delay, downmixed center etc... but this would (at least in theory) defeat the hi-res. aspect of DVD-A.

Did you ONLY have the analog cables plugged in on the second test that seemed to work? Maybe that time the audio was DD coming in one a digital cable??

"Let me know if this is not what you are looking for, give me a roadmap and I’ll attempt whatever!."

Sounds just right what you're doing. There just seems to be a few variables to eliminate though. Can you unplug the digital cable so for sure the Outlaw is only getting the analog outs from your player? And are you sure that "Night in Paris" DVD-A has center info recorded on it?

"-you seem to be checking to see if the center channel information will be downmixed into the fronts."

Yes. Exactly.

"How would I test wheter or not this is so. Since I put the Beethoveen's on line, anytime I run just the fronts (in Stereo bypass) (and here on the multi-channel DVD-A with center disabled) I have the illusion of a center channel running. But not the expertise to judge if the center channel info is just discarded when I disable center or mixed into the fronts?"

The easy test is when the center is ON it should sound very close to the same with it off (depends on how your mains are set up). Should be very clear to you.

A more direct test would be with a disc that obviously has a single vocalist singing dead center so the bulk of her/his voice is recorded in the center only.

If your player in NOT downmixing that center info when you 'set it to', the singer should sound totally weak and MUCH quieter since the mains mostly would just have light 'ambiance' of her/his voice recorded in them. I'll sound like the singer's almost gone.

Did I explain that confusingly enough?? I tried to make it clear, but kinda hard to word.
Basically it should be pretty clear/easy to hear if the center info is lost or downmixed to your mains.

You can test this for sure with DD/DTS DVD's. Play a DVD in 5.1 but unplug the center speaker. You'll tell instantly that the dialouge has been totally gutted.

Then set the Outlaw to 'center -none', and it'll downmix the center info into the mains and (as long as you're sitting dead center on almost anybody's system)it should sound VERY much like you just plugged your center speaker back in (but you didn't).

My wife and I actually find a 'phantom center' more open and seamless than an actual center -part of why I'm asking about if DVD-A/SACD players can do it. Just more amp/speaker cost I'd rather avoid.


[This message has been edited by azryan (edited November 13, 2002).]