Doug, I doubt if you are still checking this thread 3 months after posting it, but if you are, I would appreciate hearing more of your (or anyone else's) thoughts on the Yamaha RX-V2500. They are now discontinued, but still widely available with low prices. I have read several reviews saying they have very good quiet preamp stages when used with an external amplifier.

I went to Tweeter to audition the 2500 and the Denon 3805, both as receivers using their internal amps. I selected CD or DVD in 2 channel mode with no disc playing, and cranked the volume all the way up. The Yamaha produced a hiss that was plainly audible 10 feet away. It was slightly quieter in "Pure Direct" mode but not much. The Denon was virtually silent with my ear pressed against the speaker grill. I repeated this test at a different Tweeter store and the results were the same.

So here are my questions.

1. Is this a meaningful test with any real-world listening relevance? The hiss only became noticeable from the Yamaha when the volume was close to maximum. At typical listening levels, there was little or no audible hiss with either product.

2. Is it possible that the Yamaha's preamp stage is in fact very quiet, and all of the noise came from the unit's amplifier? I have not personally heard either receiver as a preamp, but I was impressed by your report that the Yamaha was very quiet paired with the Outlaw amp.

Based on my experiment, I could not talk myself into buying the Yamaha despite the nice features and low price. Assuming all the hiss comes from the internal amplifier, I would not even want to use it for movie surround channels.