I am here to learn as much as I am here to share my knowledge, experience and insights. It was fun, until now; I am indeed about to chime-out.

What seemed a fun discussion turned into a conversation about competence. The only way to earn credibility points - this conversation is apparently about winning something - is if you can answer trivia questions or show off by casually mentioning makes and models of full-bandwidth loudspeakers - I did mention B&W or Wilson Audio already, didn't I? - or titles of DVD-A discs which interest me the least - as if there are so many DVD-A titles already - or otherwise pee against some tree that is apparently relevant to the poster. Bashing is easy, but it says usually more about the basher than about the bashed.

If you need to know what my background is, then ask a direct question, but do not hide behind secret criteria that are irrelevant to the discussion to value the input. The encouragement from other posters is very much appreciated though, and I know that it is not chique to quit, but what is there to gain except frustration. What I encounter here is sheer lack of willingness to understand the issue from at least a technical point of view. If the willingness is not there, then let's stop. If the reason for the unwillingness is caused by my reluctance to 'pee against the tree' as defined above, so be it. If my arguments sound unbelievable, understand that bass management is a matter of logical science, not a matter of religion. The frustrating part to me is that I am unsuccesful to wade through the smoke screens, and that I am unable to explain why there is a need for regulation of the bass management issue. If my explanation of this issue is not clear, but you are interested in the matter, please dig around elsewhere, do DD under the professionals, and, as suggested before, read a book or two about the subject.

The 'high-end' world is mostly flushed with discussions about esoteric issues, which are fun to watch from a safe distance, but the subject of bass management should not have to become one of these subjects. The rules of the game are simple and straightforward, and are made to serve the consumer with a consistent sound balance that, once the loudspeaker configuration of the consumer is tuned, will work with every recording without adjustment. The need for these rules are there because the recording industry cannot and should not expect the listener to continuously make these adjustmens. We are talking about facts here. That not every engineer and high-ender is aware of the facts and rules is not surprizing, although somewhat alarming.


On the bass management subject again.

LFE is for effects, not for music or other content that is of value for the program. This is in some cases an artistic choice, and only in a very few cases a technical choice. If you have a sub and decent bass management then there is no need at all to double the bass information in the LFE channel. If you do not have a sub, same applies.

Some of you may have noticed that I made a mistake in my previous posting. There I explained the doubling of base between 40 and 80 Hz in situation B. While travelling it occurred to me that there is doubling of the entire DC-80Hz region, except that DC-40 is doubled in the sub (redirected bass+LFE channel) and the doubling between 40 and 80 Hz occurs in the sub AND the main loudspeaker. Quite a significant issue, as the phase response and loudspeaker color of that doubling may cause interesting psychedelic artefacts, depending on the specific components, loudspreaker placement and acoustics.

On the subject of the sound in the recording studio, I already explained that the engineer would in fact NOT pick-up on the unwanted doubling because he or she already KNOWS that the signal feed is doubled. Self-fulfilling prophecy, n'est pas (I can pee in French too)? It is in the 'dialing in' of the sub in the system in the studio that the engineer still listens to a balanced system that now in fact NEEDS the double signal feed (via LFE and redirected bass). This will in fact only sound half-decent if the cut-off to the LFE is set at the same frequency as the cut-off from the mains to the sub so the signal doubling occurs only at the subwoofer, otherwise you would get different loudspeaker drivers, electronics and signal paths driving the 'difference bandwidth' which, as suggested above, has the potential for weird effects. As you see, the discovery of my previous mistake has lead to a potential worsening of the sound quality in the studio environment. I sincerely hope that no-one still wonders why we need rules for bass routing and management...

Suppose for a moment that... (dream music starts) studios have different loudspeakers and different settings for the cross-over, then the resultant sound would be different every time, (music turns grimm) and even worse, not even a fine bass manager as our hosting company makes can make-up for that, because we have to tune the trapped bandwidth. What a mess would that be! Lucky for us studio's all use the same equipment and loudspeakers (dreamy music picked-up again). What a happy dream...

I may start a new thread with an old question I have about binding posts that still have not been able to answer.

For this subject I am done, unless relevant iterations come up in good spirit.


Snarf