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#97892 - 03/10/18 05:35 AM Re: 976 Dislikes or improvement/update wish list ! [Re: Outlaw Ben]
kiwiaudio Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/16/11
Posts: 78
Thankyou for your reply Ben. I understand where you are coming from. Many moderators have far too much to say, and i know we dont want that. There have been times when i felt an informed response from you would be appropriate though. Like when we are continually hashing and rehashing an issue and not getting far with it (exasperating remote problems come to mind).
I, for one, would like to see you jump in more often, with informed information like you just provided about the sub/lfe trim. Ive wondered about that for years, and now i know where the designers were going with that! Manuals do not always explain things intuitively.
_________________________
Double drywalled, "Green Glue" treated Theater
GIK acoustic treatment
Epson 8700UB Projecting on a 135" Seymour XD Audio transparent screen
Outlaw 976 Processor
Outlaw 755 amp for Center and all four surrounds
Adcom GFA 555II for Main L & R channels
Behringer EP4000 for two homemade subs
Outlaw Ultra X13 for REAL Sub Bass !
OPPO BDP103, Marantz CD63SE, Denon DP300F
2 Adcom ACE515s for AC current treatment
Newport Theater Director for AC distribution.
Speakers are all built by myself utilizing Dynaudio Drivers
Second room: Yamaha receiver, Musical fidelity X10D tubes, Carver C9 holographic pro.

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#97893 - 03/10/18 11:40 AM Re: 976 Dislikes or improvement/update wish list ! [Re: kiwiaudio]
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2542
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
I for one would like Outlaw Ben to chime in specifically when we ask for help about a topic under discussion. Many of the issues here in the forum are solvable via customer service but when the person making the query gets an answer they don't always tell the rest of us and we continue to try to hash it out.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

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#97915 - 03/13/18 09:21 AM Re: 976 Dislikes or improvement/update wish list ! [Re: kiwiaudio]
Hank Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/30/01
Posts: 342
Loc: Austin, Texas, USA
XenonMan: good points. I've seen EQ and LFE questions ad infinitum, with the same answers re-emerging many times, but get the feeling many folks, including me, don't completely grasp the details. A post or two from Ben would have curtailed the endless posts much earlier. IMHO.


Edited by Hank (03/14/18 04:46 AM)
_________________________
"Do you expect me to talk?"
"No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!"

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#97918 - 03/13/18 02:51 PM Re: 976 Dislikes or improvement/update wish list ! [Re: kiwiaudio]
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2542
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
I agree, and it appears that in the last few days, Ben is watching the forum closer for items he can nip in the bud quickly with his expertise.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

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#97921 - 03/14/18 04:48 AM Re: 976 Dislikes or improvement/update wish list ! [Re: kiwiaudio]
Hank Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/30/01
Posts: 342
Loc: Austin, Texas, USA
Yup, maybe a weekly check would be enough - he for sure has lots to do on the job and I'm definitely not suggesting he babysit the forum daily.
_________________________
"Do you expect me to talk?"
"No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!"

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#97962 - 03/31/18 01:29 AM Re: 976 Dislikes or improvement/update wish list ! [Re: kiwiaudio]
975 destroyer Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 09/07/15
Posts: 91
Loc: Georgia, US of A!
To/from those that upgraded from 975 to a 976: what about volume or “Drive” as I prefer to call it. Do you get the same or higher perceived “Drive” @ say -30? Anyone using those balanced outputs? My one major complaint when I “entered the Outlaw saloon” from the “Rotel parlor,” reduced max Drive.

Rotel 1068 display shows volume from 0 to 100. I could set a default turn on level at, say, 50, and chose to limit max at 90 to keep busy hands out of trouble. When I upgraded, “0” Outlaw Drive was about the same as “80” Rotel Drive, my system’s “alive” or “wake up” point.

(Can’t recall who at ) Outlaw CS said “different type V control.” Didn’t get it then. Don’t get it now. I’ve since gotten around that w/EXOs that have nifty feature - a “-10/+4” button. Set correctly, makes up the difference in spades!
_________________________
Samsung 60" LED
Outlaw Audio 975
Samsung BDP, Dennon LDP, Phillips CD chgr, DirecTV

Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

LR: tri-amped Polk RTi A7 -> 2 Rotel 98X & 2 P'sound HCA1000s
CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped Polk CSi A6
SWs: 5 Audio Pros - B1.39 & 4 Evidence* - 1* @ ea corner
Surrounds: Hafler XL280 -> Polk RTi A3**
Power Conditioning & Distribution:
3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman MP-20s
** Bi-amped early 2018

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#97966 - 03/31/18 07:21 AM Re: 976 Dislikes or improvement/update wish list ! [Re: kiwiaudio]
Helson Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 205
Loc: USA
These are two different types of volume circuits:
The 0-100 is an absolute scale, which controls linear volume gain adjustments. Hence, the 0-100 increments.
The relative dB type volume, is a logarithmic scale where 0dB is max volume and anything less is shown as a negative value.
_________________________
It's time to hit "send", and leave.

Main HT <> 976 <> 7200 <> Ultra-X12 <> sapphire ST2 mkII RF/LF <> sapphire SC center
sapphire ST2 mkII SBR/SBL <> sapphire SS SR/SL <> 1byone over the air converter/DVR with 320Gb external HD <>
Lava HD-2605 Ultra 150 mile antenna <> Vizio E70U-D3 70" LCD <> Oppo UDP-203 <> Amazon Fire TV

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#97967 - 03/31/18 09:42 AM Re: 976 Dislikes or improvement/update wish list ! [Re: kiwiaudio]
Deromax Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 57
Loc: Shawinigan, PQ, Canada
Hello. My system with the 990 as the processor was calibrated so 0dB on the volume display was my reference level, and that produced a +14dBu nominal level on the XLR output as measured on the device connected after the 990, which have precise metering. If we accept that +22dBu is the cliping point of most equipment using XLR connections, pro or consummer, that would leave 8dB of actual, clean analog headroom over the maximum level found on digital medias (0dBfs), with the 990 volume knob being able to go up another 6dB higher that that, namely +14 dB on the volume display.

Now for the 976, being a drop-in replacement in my system, I found that having -10dB on the volume indicator is giving me a similar but not quite as loud actual SPL in the room (not measured but I estimate 2dB SPL). Since I'd rather have an easy to remember number as reference, I choose to stay at -10dB, which is also sitting well with me becoming older and more sensible to too loud hahaha!

However, if I'd use +2dB volume position as my reference, the 976 would have the same 8dB of clean analog headroom (same headroom as the 990) but not *more* gain available above that, since volume max out at the 0dB position.

Now, the Outlaw support said that the channels level calibration (done in the digital domain in the setting menu) has another +6dB of gain available. If one was to use it, the net output level should then become the same as the 990.

For short, the two processors have different gain structure and "volume" scale but should ultimately be able to give the same output and gain (ie Drive).


Edited by Deromax (03/31/18 09:47 AM)
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Eric Desrochers
http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Deromax

" I hear no highs, I feel no lows, it sounds like crap, it must be Bose "

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#97968 - 04/01/18 09:03 PM Re: 976 Dislikes or improvement/update wish list ! [Re: Deromax]
975 destroyer Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 09/07/15
Posts: 91
Loc: Georgia, US of A!
Helson: I don’t get the difference - Rotel’s zero to one hundred V ctrl has more Drive than Outlaw’s V ctrl. I hope the 976 balanced outputs have the same or more Drive than the 975.

Originally Posted By Deromax
For short, the two processors have different gain structure and "volume" scale but should ultimately be able to give the same output and gain (ie Drive).
which two processors?

Thnx, Tony.

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#97969 - 04/02/18 06:06 AM Re: 976 Dislikes or improvement/update wish list ! [Re: kiwiaudio]
Helson Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 205
Loc: USA
The dB scale is relative to max output. Any -dB level is in relation to max volume and is related to a measure of sound pressure.

Say for example, an absolute volume control was to reach 75dB of sound pressure at about '25' on the 0-100 scale,
and a relative volume control reached 75dB of sound pressure at -25dB, those two points on each control would be equal. Even though the absolute circuit was closer to the lower end of the control's scale, with the relative control closer to the max volume end of it's scale.
This doesn't necessarily mean the absolute volume control has more drive. They are just two different approaches to adjusting that unit's drive.
_________________________
It's time to hit "send", and leave.

Main HT <> 976 <> 7200 <> Ultra-X12 <> sapphire ST2 mkII RF/LF <> sapphire SC center
sapphire ST2 mkII SBR/SBL <> sapphire SS SR/SL <> 1byone over the air converter/DVR with 320Gb external HD <>
Lava HD-2605 Ultra 150 mile antenna <> Vizio E70U-D3 70" LCD <> Oppo UDP-203 <> Amazon Fire TV

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