Theres a lot to like about the 976, but of course no component is perfect. Maybe Outlaw can address some issues, maybe not !
I can live with the issues i see, but maybe there are others with issues that really should be addressed. Lets hear em !

I really dont like that i cannot rename the inputs to match my components. Thats old school Outlaw !

Blue power button is crazy bright! If i had that inside my viewing room, it would be covered with some blackout tape or something the day i got it. Thankfully i have a separate media closet outside the theater. I have one component thats even worse. A Newport Theater director - It has a row of five of these bright blue LEDs. Crazy !

The remotes very narrow field of view has been commented on a lot here. I have an IR repeater system which does help a little, or maybe im just getting better at aiming.

You would think that the same feature that allows dimming the main display could dim the blue light also. Renaming the gizmos while nice is probably not gonna happen. The remote issue needs to be fixed ASAP.

I will add that each input should have an audio gain adjustment in the input setup menu.
My turntable has by far the lowest volume output, my Oppos Bluray the highest. I can lower the Oppos output within the player, but it is a master audio control. All the apps within the Oppo also have differing gain, further muddying the waters - i wish they were each adjustable also.

I'm loving the sound quality and integration options of my 976! I really appreciate the Outlaws product management and engineering decisions.

Here is my request: improved audio bitstream detection/locking.

My Apple TV and Xbox One X (both feeding through HDMI) seem to be tripping up the 976 when silent or switching between menu/navigation sounds and content bitstreams. The 976 misses most Apple TV menu navigation audio unless it is in rapid succession. The Xbox is more troubling as whenever I pause or advance chapters I get a burst of digital white noise (for less than a second) before a Dolby TrueHD or DTS MA bitstream locks correctly when playing 4k content. I think this is because the Xbox is switching to Dolby Digital (or DTS) for its own system/menu sounds then back to the content bitstream. I admit that these could just as well be issues with the ATV and Xbox as sources but I have not experienced similar behavior when using the same sources and different gear (TV or HDMI attached Soundbar audio).

I also notice a delay/fade-in on audio bitstreams coming in from the coaxial input. I use Roon to send audio to an Allo DigiOne player and my playlists change sample rates / bit depths depending on the track.

This may be too much tech for the price point...but I would like to see the OSD show Speaker Trim Levels with the touch of a button on the remote...then allow you to adjust each level up or down...all while watching and listening to the particular source. This is nice to have for Movies (due to the differences in sub woofer low bass and center channel dialog) and Blu-ray concert discs (due to wide range of recording quality).

PS...I like the bright blue power button...but that's just me!

I second the "on the fly" trim levels on the remote. I would love that.

Regarding channel trim levels - viewing and changing them on the fly is documented on page 37 of the owners manual (far right column "To adjust channel levels during playback:"). You use the "test" button on the remote, press enter (to leave test tones off) then use right and left to move between channels and up and down to adjust the level.

Thanks, I know that, Outlaw customer service advised me...but I really like to adjust levels with the aid of OSD on the TV, not the unit.

Id like to see an adjustable delay on the second sub output so the room modes can be manipulated. Seldom can we place subs in the ideal locations.

In addition to granular delay control on each sub output (good call, this could really help fine tune) I would like to see an option to set the low pass crossover to the subs without a high pass on the mains (when using large mains to allow more overlap). There is an option to do this with multichannel DD/DTS but I'd like an option to do it with stereo.

While I'm on the subject, I would like a better explanation of the "Sub Trim" on the "LFE Trim" menu - is it duplicate to the sub trim on the Speaker/Level Trim (I don't think so), seems like it applies to the All Channel Stereo mode? That would make sense since there are explicit settings for DD/DPL/DTS/Stereo but the language the manual uses, overall far better than other products, still leaves me with this question. Are crossovers applied before the EQ for each channel or after? Come to think of it, the 976 is applying bass management to the analog inputs too (this is huge, prior Outlaw products had a fixed analog option for analog bass management or used an ADC) - are the crossovers always analog or are they digitally processed for digital sources?

976 manual p19 contains a "975" typo

Along with some of the issues that have been mentioned, primarily the inability to rename the input source, I would have like the ability to see the audio format displayed constantly in the window. It does show up briefly (scrolls across the screen)and then reverts to displaying the input source.

I have several analog only input sources and the only way I can find to use them, is to assign them to one of the main inputs. Since I have 4 HDMI and 3 analog sources, there aren't enough inputs to accommodate them all. It would be nice to have access to just the analog inputs without have to use up any of the main inputs.

The remote issue(s) have been noted and I experience the same problem.

The 976 has 4 analog inputs along with 6 HDMI inputs. The way the manual reads your analog inputs would be connected at that point.

I see what you mean, and i never gave it any thought as i dont have 10 input sources. There are nine selectable named inputs (Devices). Bluetooth and Tuner are non-assignable. so that leaves 7, which is what you need right Beachbum? Cable/sat, Disc, Game, Media, Server, Aux and TV. Sucks that we cannot rename these !
Incidentally, I used the front HDMI for a Roku stick a few weeks ago, and once plugged in, i believe the 976 defaulted to it without me selecting it in any way, but im not totally sure about that as my memory is not what it was. If this is true, then it is not assignable and it will override.
There is an audio selection called "Direct" and unless im missing it, i dont see it explained anywhere in the manual other than page 46 where you can list your connections. I have 7.1 analog cables connected from my Oppo and "direct" allows their use. I wonder if your analog sources can also use this mode, but i dont think so. No DSP or bass management is applied to this. I have a turntable that is using an analog input, but i have not tried it on "direct" as i assigned it to aux and Dolby pro IIX music. I should try "direct" and see if it works.

But the more i think about it, i think you are out of luck if you have more than 7 input sources !

I'm fairly certain the "Direct" button on the remote is for direct tuning an AM/FM station. Although I haven't hooked up any antennae as of yet, and haven't even tried the tuner.

What can be done if more inputs are needed is, use as many connections as are available, whether they be analog stereo, digital audio, or the 7.1 multi-channel, and you could just enter the menu and switch the audio configuration for that input, whenever you're using an alternative connection. This may be necessary for only another few connections and it shouldn't be too much of a hassle for the number of times you're going to use these other devices. You would only have to switch back when moving back to the previous connection.
I guess that's what you pay more for.

The front HDMI won't override to HDMI if something is plugged into it. That would require an auto-sensing component or circuit, which isn't mentioned in the manual. (But I haven't tried that either.)

Has anyone heard from Outlaw whether the renaming of inputs is something that can be corrected with a firmware update. Or have they said that it is impossible with the current design? This is the one thing that is keeping me from pulling the trigger and ordering a unit to try.

I keep hearing the input naming issue come up. I would doubt Outlaw will change the processor to allow this to happen but I am uncertain as to the value of this feature. Can someone enlighten me why this is such a desired feature. Most of us can remember which bluray player or game console we own and have connected. Is it because some own more than one game console and they would like to see its name displayed on the front panel?

It's a non issue for me. I know on my 975 that DISC is the PS3 and TV is our Roku, for example. The fixed names aren't perfect but by and large they're close enough. Also, I just program our trusty MX-700 remote and once that's done I don't NEED to remember any more as it all happens automatically when I press the button.

I know a lot of people feel it's important to be able to rename the inputs to read whatever it is they want it to display, though. I personally wouldn't pass up a great piece of gear if that were the only sticking point because, for me, overall performance trumps an arbitrary label.

No, it's a mess. I don't want my BD player to be on a generic Disc input, my turntable to be on the Game input, my CD player on the Media input or my other analog gear on the Server input. Memory or not, it's an ergonomic mess.

At that point, I'd rather have "Input 1", "Input 2", etc than the current arbitrary names.

FWIW it's a non-issue for me as well. They could be named piglet, snowmonkey, pine, etc., etc. for all i care. However, I do respect others desire for something more organized. Quality sounding and processing product, ease of use and without all the "bloat"(that costs $$) works for me. At this early stage of my 976 ownership I'm quite pleased.

Non issue for me as well. I've had for about a month now(upgrade from 970 which still works). Very noticeable difference in sound quality, center channel clarity and for some reason the bass from my NHT FL and FR seems much better (supposedly they go down to 29). I use Harmony 650 remotes($50 each maybe) on our 3 systems for the wife. We just select the activity, whether it be Netflix, Bluray player, cable TV, turntable or Media PC(I'm still using Windows Media Center with HD homerun for live TV and recording on 2 systems(AWESOME)and the input "name" isn't critical.

Totally agree Eric. Well said !

My guess is that the upcoming flagship model may have this ability as another feather in its cap to set it apart and provide additional functionality. I would not expect to see it change in the 975 or the 976, though.

I'd add that since the inputs are really "software" inputs, we should be able to use *all* of the hardware inputs if needed, by adding new inputs at the end of the existing list!

I certainly don't want a bloated piece of equipment, but this minimalist and "our way or the highway" approach reminds me why Blackberry disapeared! What if one day manufacturers decide that the front panel will no longer have any buttons nor display, because "people are mostly using the remote"? What if they remove all the analog inpus, including the 7.1? Wnat if they remove the Stereo mode, because "this is a product made for movies"?

By actively being against a trivial to add functionality that several people seem to want and that you're not forced to use, I think you're doing a disservice to the future functionnalities of such products. Don't aim for the bottom, aim for the top!

My 0.02

Added functionality has always translated to added cost. If you were to get the added features you want,
now how much would you pay?
I agree with Owl's_Warder. The flagship model may have these added features, with more cost.

I like that my current 976 and my previous 975 were in an affordable price range for me. They both did exactly what I needed them to do. Reproduce the video and audio, and they both have great SQ.

I also use the Harmony 700 which I only have to choose an activity and sit back and enjoy. I barely even look at my 976.

I completely understand where you're coming from here, but remember that you're focusing on one trivial thing while they're looking at ALL the trivial things. Anything that gets omitted or stripped down to save cost/time/space is something that someone, somewhere, wants. The Outlaws have made their name keeping cost down and functionality simple and effective. These are the sorts of things that occur with that approach. The trivial easy to add things are how you end up with 3,465 features in a receiver. Everyone wants to add just one more little thing. I like that they draw a line and I'm truly sorry that your needs fall on the wrong side of that line. Hopefully you find something that works for you, though. Maybe the flagship model if you're still in the market when it streets!

I agree with Owl's Warder that Outlaw has to draw a line somewhere to control costs.If it were a simple software issue they would probably have fixed it long ago but...it's not just that. They would have to modify the menu/OSD to give you some sort of keyboard device and allow more characters for the names. Manufacturers like Onkyo get to spread that kind of cost across multiple devices so it is easy for them to do. Outlaw builds one or two processor models every two years or so (if they are lucky). Most of us are here because we want performance and are willing to go more basic. Like Outlaw we have drawn a line of what we want to spend and what features we want. If the current processors don't fit a specific users needs they will have to either move on or decide to buy one.

In other fields, things have been added by software to devices that were thought to be impossible to add, and the updates were free. At work I use a Behringer digital mixing console and you wouldn't believe all the goddies they were able to add at the users suggestions, in mere weeks. They still do, and the original, now 6 years old hardware, is still fully supported.

My old Samsung Blu-ray player got DTS Master Audio codec support added by a free firmware update. The PS4 got 3D support via a free firmware update. Etc.

It's often a question of will to/marketing decision more than engineering.

But my 976 sounds good, it's the most important thing in the end!

PS, you don't need a keyboard to name something in a basic user interface. It's been done in numerous devices since the 80s, and namely in the 13 years old Outlaw 990!

Without some sort of keyboard device how can you name the inputs? Even the venerable 990 uses a alphabet selector device to allow renaming inputs. Even if you could rename the inputs on the front panel, your remote won't change. Confusion will reign.

Hello,

First, I never expected my question to start such heated, well maybe lukewarm, debate.

Some of the initial comments regarding the lack of the ability to rename inputs was ‘not an issue’, I can certainly appreciate your opinion. Everyone has their ‘desires’. I for one, have no desire for ATMOS, so the fact that the 976 doesn’t have it is ‘not an issue’ for me. However, being forced into the existing input naming options is.

Also, if I am about to spend close to $1000 for a new surround sound processor and it doesn’t have a feature that my 14 year old current processor does, it kind of feels like stepping backwards.

I certainly agree that audio and video quality is the most important, however based on my searching there seem to be many devices that have this, although they also seem to come with their own ‘warts’. Things like receivers that have amps I don’t want, tons more inputs I don’t need, or higher cost.

I have never owned a piece of Outlaw Audio equipment but was drawn to the brand, among others, based on favorable comments seen on the web. They do seem like a company that I would like to deal with, assuming they have a product that meets my needs/desires.

With regards to the comments that a programable input name would require a keyboard, I disagree. Changing the name of inputs is not something that would be done often (if ever again after the initial setup). It could be done with an up/down button that scrolled through the alphabet and numbers, a right/left button to go to the next/previous character, and an ‘ok’ button to select. This could be done on the front panel if it was too much trouble to do through the remote. Again, this is not something that would be done often. I don’t need it to have to be displayed on the OSD while being entered.

Some people have stated something along the lines of ‘I can remember that ‘disc’ is actually the Roku, or Game is actually my turntable’ and yes, I may eventually be able to remember this However, I also have family members that are not as tech savvy. I also know that I could program my Harmony remote button to say ‘Roku’ but when the front panel of the 976 shows up as ‘disc’, I can easily foresee my family calling me with ‘Dad/Honey, somethings wrong. I agree with another poster that Input 1, Input 2, etc would be better than the current input names available (assuming your actual input devices are not exactly what the unit offers as options). In my opinion it would be easier to correlate/associate “Input 1” with ‘Roku’ than say “Cable/Sat”.

I understand that the ‘flagship’ model may have this functionality, however I am sure it is going to be outside my price range, not to mention it is going to have features I don’t need (or want).

The intent of my question was to find out if anyone had heard from the company (whether directly, via press releases, manuals, website, etc) if this was a functionality that could be offered at a later time or if their current design was such that there was no way to update the unit in this manner. I would certainly not expect them to make a hardware design change just to add this. It appears that no one has this info, which is fine, so I will contact them directly.

If I hear anything back from them, I will let you know.

Happy Listening and Viewing.

Not being able to rename the inputs is what made me decide to not jump on the 976 right out of the gate.
My 10 year old 990 has that feature and it does not need a keyboard.
That's what I don't understand why this feature was not in the 976 from the get go.

The 990 was how much at launch? $1199.00? This was twelve years ago or so. Factor in inflation and it was that much more expensive a processor at that time than the 976 is now.

Did you ever get an answer to your Sub Trim/LFE trim concern arbitrageur ?

No, I still have questions. They aren't getting in the way of enjoying the sound though!

I am currently operating under the impression that the EQ is applied to each source channel and then the crossover is applied. That means that a +3db bump at 30hz on the front left channel will be passed to the sub if using a crossover (small speaker setting), but a +3db bump at 30hz on the sub EQ will only be applied to the LFE channel source.

I had the 976 on a test bench and was convinced that bass management was being applied to an analog input. I fed a DAC into an analog stereo input then plugged powered monitors into the sub and left front XLR outs and confirmed full range (maybe bass limited?) on one speaker and bass only on the other. I didn't invest the time to confirm that the crossover point moved (previous outlaw products had a fixed 80hz crossover for analog), or that the "full range" was actually bass limited as it should be.

I think "Sub Trim" on the "LFE Trim" menu is for managing the sub gain in modes where channels are summed below the crossover, as occurs with All Channel Stereo and with the "Bass Augmentation" modes.

The proper crossover is applied to the *stereo* analog inputs, since those are digitized for processing, but *not* to the 7.1 input, which is pure analog. There is no such thing as "full range bass limited". If it's bass limited, that means a crossover is in operation! The high pass will be 12 dB per octave, but the sub out will have a 24 dB per octave low pass.

Well, I heard back from Outlaw regarding the possibility of a future update to allow custom input names.

Unfortunately, they said they have no plans to make such an upgrade. :-(

Thanks for that info. Well done on your test bench. Ive been confused with these Trims since similar controls were on my Outlaw ICBM. Loved that piece, but have no use for it now !

Thanks for asking them. Im betting the answer does not surprise any of us. All we are doing is giving Outlaw food for thought with their top-of-the-line processor. If it ever comes to be !
I do wonder why though, when its said they monitor these forums, that Outlaw doesnt pipe up and say so right here !!
I suppose they just let us all vent !

Correct. EQ is applied to each channel, then the crossovers are applied.



Correct.



Sub trim, in the LFE Trim menu, can be somewhat redundant as it affects the whole subwoofer channel - this allows you to use your main subwoofer channel trim to calibrate the system properly and then tweak for your personal tastes via the sub trim in the LFE Trim menu. This way you don't need to remember where the subwoofer trim should be set for proper calibration because you've tweaked it so many times for different content or sources. Assuming the system was channel balanced, you can just adjust the setting in the LFE Trim any time you wish and when you want to go back to calibrated, you would just zero it out.

Because the forum is meant for discussion between Outlaw users, it is not the appropriate place for directing questions towards Outlaw. Questions for us should be directed to customerservice@outlawaudio.com . The forum is a spot where we try not to interfere; it is intended to give Outlaw users a place to interact with each other. We really only monitor for foul language and inappropriate usage. If we have major updates, we'll also post them here for our customer's convenience.

If I see a question that others have been unable to assist with, and I have time and the answer, then of course I am going to help out.

Thankyou for your reply Ben. I understand where you are coming from. Many moderators have far too much to say, and i know we dont want that. There have been times when i felt an informed response from you would be appropriate though. Like when we are continually hashing and rehashing an issue and not getting far with it (exasperating remote problems come to mind).
I, for one, would like to see you jump in more often, with informed information like you just provided about the sub/lfe trim. Ive wondered about that for years, and now i know where the designers were going with that! Manuals do not always explain things intuitively.

I for one would like Outlaw Ben to chime in specifically when we ask for help about a topic under discussion. Many of the issues here in the forum are solvable via customer service but when the person making the query gets an answer they don't always tell the rest of us and we continue to try to hash it out.

XenonMan: good points. I've seen EQ and LFE questions ad infinitum, with the same answers re-emerging many times, but get the feeling many folks, including me, don't completely grasp the details. A post or two from Ben would have curtailed the endless posts much earlier. IMHO.

I agree, and it appears that in the last few days, Ben is watching the forum closer for items he can nip in the bud quickly with his expertise.

Yup, maybe a weekly check would be enough - he for sure has lots to do on the job and I'm definitely not suggesting he babysit the forum daily.

To/from those that upgraded from 975 to a 976: what about volume or “Drive” as I prefer to call it. Do you get the same or higher perceived “Drive” @ say -30? Anyone using those balanced outputs? My one major complaint when I “entered the Outlaw saloon” from the “Rotel parlor,” reduced max Drive.

Rotel 1068 display shows volume from 0 to 100. I could set a default turn on level at, say, 50, and chose to limit max at 90 to keep busy hands out of trouble. When I upgraded, “0” Outlaw Drive was about the same as “80” Rotel Drive, my system’s “alive” or “wake up” point.

(Can’t recall who at ) Outlaw CS said “different type V control.” Didn’t get it then. Don’t get it now. I’ve since gotten around that w/EXOs that have nifty feature - a “-10/+4” button. Set correctly, makes up the difference in spades!

These are two different types of volume circuits:
The 0-100 is an absolute scale, which controls linear volume gain adjustments. Hence, the 0-100 increments.
The relative dB type volume, is a logarithmic scale where 0dB is max volume and anything less is shown as a negative value.

Hello. My system with the 990 as the processor was calibrated so 0dB on the volume display was my reference level, and that produced a +14dBu nominal level on the XLR output as measured on the device connected after the 990, which have precise metering. If we accept that +22dBu is the cliping point of most equipment using XLR connections, pro or consummer, that would leave 8dB of actual, clean analog headroom over the maximum level found on digital medias (0dBfs), with the 990 volume knob being able to go up another 6dB higher that that, namely +14 dB on the volume display.

Now for the 976, being a drop-in replacement in my system, I found that having -10dB on the volume indicator is giving me a similar but not quite as loud actual SPL in the room (not measured but I estimate 2dB SPL). Since I'd rather have an easy to remember number as reference, I choose to stay at -10dB, which is also sitting well with me becoming older and more sensible to too loud hahaha!

However, if I'd use +2dB volume position as my reference, the 976 would have the same 8dB of clean analog headroom (same headroom as the 990) but not *more* gain available above that, since volume max out at the 0dB position.

Now, the Outlaw support said that the channels level calibration (done in the digital domain in the setting menu) has another +6dB of gain available. If one was to use it, the net output level should then become the same as the 990.

For short, the two processors have different gain structure and "volume" scale but should ultimately be able to give the same output and gain (ie Drive).

Helson: I don’t get the difference - Rotel’s zero to one hundred V ctrl has more Drive than Outlaw’s V ctrl. I hope the 976 balanced outputs have the same or more Drive than the 975.

which two processors?

Thnx, Tony.

The dB scale is relative to max output. Any -dB level is in relation to max volume and is related to a measure of sound pressure.

Say for example, an absolute volume control was to reach 75dB of sound pressure at about '25' on the 0-100 scale,
and a relative volume control reached 75dB of sound pressure at -25dB, those two points on each control would be equal. Even though the absolute circuit was closer to the lower end of the control's scale, with the relative control closer to the max volume end of it's scale.
This doesn't necessarily mean the absolute volume control has more drive. They are just two different approaches to adjusting that unit's drive.

Oops! Forgot. ERIC? I paid a visit to your page on the Blu-ray Gallery - most impressive

Hello 975 destroyer! I was comparing my previous 990 to the 976. I didn't use any other pre-pro in the last 10 years.

The 0-100 or dB value displayed by the volume control is just a relative value that the manufacturer gave to the processor. This is no different than the good old days when the volume merily went from 0 to 10 lol! One preamp would reach a given loudness with the volume at 4, another preamp would need its volume to be placed at 7 to be as loud. That doesn't prevent both of them to go as loud in the end.

Thanks for the comments about my setup!

I was playing with the lip sync last night while watching a netflix video. The increments need to be finer. 10 millisecond jumps are too wide. I needed it between 0 and the first setting. Sounds picky I know, but it was noticeable.
The max setting of 500 m/s is ridiculous. I cannot believe anything will be that far out.
Whats the highest setting anyone has used ?

A finer lip sync delay is a great suggestion, I'm frustratingly close to having the sync right. The highest delay I have used is 80ms.

10 ms is a quarter of a frame duration. I think that's plenty of granularity. However, it would be trivial to have 1 ms resolution, so they should do it.

Excellent point about how the math works out (1000/24 = ~42ms per film frame, ~16ms for 60hz video). I wonder why I perceive that I'm not able to get the sync right?

Variability in audio time alignment throughout the program? Variability in video processing? Just too picky or going nuts?

You could think that keeping sync between sound and picture must be easy those days, but TV channels, online streams, physical medias, TVs, projectors, players, computers, audio decoding gear, all have variations and the result is unpredictable. Best not to lose sleep over this, as this will never be perfect all the time!

If you can't determine a good setting, it's better to err on the side of the sound being a tad late than ahead. Our brain knows that sound may arrive late, like when the subject is at some distance. But it will be in great confusion when it's hearing something before it happened!

If they make the adjustment too fine we will have to make constant adjustments every time we switch sources or even program material and have to push that button many more times. There is no universal fix so they have made a choice of 10ms per push.

Im ok with making necessary adjustments. We have the provision to set sync for each source. Once set why would it change Xenon? Are you seeing differences with program material?
My Oppo 103 is ok at 0m/s with Bluray, but I need to change it with the 103's Netflix app.
I guess I don't see what you mean.

in a word, nope. Rotel 1068 & the 975 provide 1ms increments - worked ok for me.

Typically I see the lip sync issue only on some TV programs. whether it is from the broadcast or the satellite I don't know. But...it isn't a consistent thing across all channels or even programs. Usually I don't even adjust for it as it seems to be temporary. On page 40 of the 975 manual it says the delay increment is 10 ms. Is it different in real usage?

Same for me, for broadcast TV. I don't adjust the lip sync for that. I do adjust it for some 4K ultraHD shows I stream on Amazon. 40mS usually does the trick.

I am trying to use the XLR outputs on the 976 to two Behringer 2031a TRUTH speakers. I just want to use these as fronts. Do I have to unplug the front rca output connectors or can I use both XLR and rca simultaneously? I can't seem to get any sound using just the XLRs ? The speakers have built in amps and power up fine. The manual states on page 21 "If necessary, you may use a combination of balanced and unbalanced connectors " I was using just rca's before without a problem. All the XLR cables are new and are high quality.

Thank You.

I got the XLRs to work !!. There were some small switches that muted the sound that I didn't see were on. I still need to know if I can also use the front RCA s as well as the XLRs. Nice to hear music with no electrical noise in the background !

What "front RCAs" are you speaking of?

On page 9 of the manual ,item "M" are RCA output jacks ,one is marked "L" another is marked "R". These are for front speakers.

Ok, They are on the back of the 976. Your OP said the front RCAs which I took as on the front of the 976 vice for the front speakers. The switches you refer to are on your speakers right? The post sounds like the XLRs on the 976 were somehow switched off.

The powered speakers I was using have small mute switches that were on, hence no sound.

I took this for granted when I bought this (and re-thinking returning it because of this) is there is no line out? Is there a way in a future firmware update to convert one of the other non-used RCAs to line out?

Swing and a miss!

You can try using the 7.2 channel outputs from the left and right channels but it kind of ruins the reason for the 976 to start with. Line out is pretty much no longer allowed because of HDCP issues.

Even the 975 has line out

Yes, but the 975 won't let you use the record out to record digital inputs. The Outlaws must have decided that the record out function was something that had to be let go in the digital age. That way they can avoid HDCP and the level control programming needed.

What is it you want/need to feed with a line out option?

Record out - so I can digitize vinyl

I plan to use the balanced outputs for all channels except LFE. That brings up a 5/7.X question: if all speakers were set to Large (PLEASE don’t ask why) what info would be sent to the Sub out (or) what is LFE info specifically?

Also I replied on pages 5&6 about 975/976 output or “drive as I like to call it. Unfortunately I have yet to receive* an explanation why my Rotel or previous processors “were LOUDER” [b]before[/b] max volume than the 975 AT max volume. And believe me, I have 10-20X power “on tap” today than my pre-975 days.
* I called CS about this. Their answer amounted to a difference in the “type” of VC. That STILL didn’t explain why the 975 didn’t “crank” the same.

Thnx, Tony

Check out this article from Dolby, which explains what an LFE track is. The subwoofer will reproduce LFE track audio and any other channel audio below the crossover points set. If speakers are set to large, that will send full range audio to those speakers, and with the crossover deactivated, no other channel audio will be steered to the sub(s). If all speakers were set to large, they would all be receiving full range and no signal would be steered from the other channels. All you would get is the LFE track audio reproduced by the sub.

https://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/Assets/US/Doc/Professional/38_LFE.pdf

What confuses most people is, how soon the loudness or gain an absolute volume circuit reaches reference levels, from the minimum or silent position, compared with a relative volume circuit, that will reach reference levels and possibly an additional 20dB of gain, max.
Which means, if the maximum range is 0dB on the control, reference level would be -20dB on the scale.
Sound and Vision has a fairly good explanation...

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/%E2%80%98relative%E2%80%99-vs-%E2%80%98absolute%E2%80%99-volume-what%E2%80%99s-difference

Thanks!! Now I get it!S&V has a very good explaination. Pity it took a Saloon member to explain: a relative “V” control has up to 20dB of add’l gain. Also thanks for the comprehensive LFE answer.

BTW I knew of issues setting any channel to Large: my LR and each surrounds each has a dedicated sub*. At the moment, my System sub handles the CC’s heavy lifting and all important LFE.
* small but acurate, robust, low distortion to 27hz, and high WAF!

Now to any one: are the balanced outputs hotter than the unbalanced?

The dial position, ie -20dB for reference level, is arbitrary. It depends on your power amps gain, speaker sensitivity, listening distance, room size, etc.

In my setup, my 976 reference level is at -10dB on the volume dial because I set my amps gain lower.

For a given power supply, a balanced output have the potential to produce 6dB higher maximum level, because of the differential nature of the balanced system. However, their actual gain may be set by the manufacturer to produce the same nominal level than the unbalanced outputs at a given volume position. Or not!

Tony, I had spoken to you about this. We also discussed the difference in input gain vs output voltage and how a relative volume control works compared to an absolute control...

Yes, the XLR outputs have more output voltage than the RCA pre-outs.

I read this. Doesn’t sound as transparent as the 975 - a feature I LOVED! My 976 is past due.

The 976 triggers are 5VDC. If some or all your amps rely upon a 12V trigger you’ll hafta get creative. I rely on a 12V automotive type relay to trigger Furman MP-20s to turn on & turn off my gear.

If one trigger were 5V, the other 12V...

maybe provide a menu w/say a dozen choices for naming? Gotta be le$$ than fancy/schmancy & better than no choice at all.

Sound side note: I LOVE the 975 SQ compared to the Rotel, that allowed renaming inputs, among other bells etc, it replaced. So I’ll put up with that.

Also the 5V triggers won’t activate a 12V relay - darn!

Tony

Since receiving my 976 & a 5V relay I’ve learned tweaking trim levels on the fly, while it requires an add’l keystroke, is more user friendly than the 975!

Ben, I apologize I did not hear you or the other gent say Rotel’s volume type had up to 20dB* of Gain* over Outlaw’s type. To be fair, if somebody, ANYBODY, had simply said just that* I’d been satisfied.

Input gain has nothing to do with the type of volume control.

Varying types of volume controls is why you can't accurately compare them apples to apples, unless both are log based controls measured in dBFS at max output (and this may or may not be doable in a real world scenario without damaging equipment) OR you have an Audio Precision.

The quick and dirty explanation is the more input gain, the worse you make your noise floor and therefore signal to noise ratio. Sure, we could make our units noisier, in the future, in order to make up for low output from source devices or from content, but I highly doubt that will ever happen. It is not the companies philosophy to sacrifice our units performance to make up for inadequacies elsewhere.

No need to apologize, but to be honest, you can't expect Outlaw employees to know that your Rotel has X amount more gain, and to state it as fact without having ever seen or used it. If you'd like to discuss input gain vs types of volume controls, feel free to call me after the busy season.

I consistently get BR player video upon Handshake but some times I hafta mess w/ the Test and Enter buttons to get audio. Did not experience this w/the third title, “Home Alone” on DVD.

Also sometimes when I press the remote’s volume increase, the volume DECREASES!

We’ll see

Check out this thread from last year around this time. Maybe the elves are on strike.
http://saloon.outlawaudio.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=97326#Post97326