#96996 - 10/23/17 02:04 PM
REW for 976
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Gunslinger
Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 283
Loc: USA
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I started reading up on REW. The approximately 132 page instructions. I'm wondering if it's in my best interest to upgrade my PC for one that has HDMI out, so I'm able to measure each channel. My current PC is getting a bit older now, so I may just do that. I still have much to prep for, but that can wait 'til I have a 976 in the fold. Still not sure how to tie into the measurement specifically for the 976.
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Main HT <> 976 <> 7200 <> Ultra-X12 <> sapphire ST2 mkII RF/LF <> sapphire SC center sapphire ST2 mkII SBR/SBL <> sapphire SS SR/SL <> Verizon/DVR <> Vizio M70Q7 <> Oppo UDP-203 <> Amazon 4k Fire TV
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#96997 - 10/24/17 07:50 AM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Desperado
Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 336
Loc: Illinois
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Edited by renov8r (10/24/17 11:50 AM)
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#96998 - 10/24/17 08:18 AM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 283
Loc: USA
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I was reading a "getting started with REW" a step by step guide, where starting on page 7 of the 132 page article, it describes using either an HDMI connection or the 3.5mm headphone output. I'm thinking the HDMI would be much easier to use configuring a 7.1 system. https://www.dropbox.com/s/zdhq72a1puyyxpr/REW%20101%20HTS%20Current%20Version.pdf?dl=0
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Main HT <> 976 <> 7200 <> Ultra-X12 <> sapphire ST2 mkII RF/LF <> sapphire SC center sapphire ST2 mkII SBR/SBL <> sapphire SS SR/SL <> Verizon/DVR <> Vizio M70Q7 <> Oppo UDP-203 <> Amazon 4k Fire TV
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#96999 - 10/24/17 10:58 AM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 283
Loc: USA
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There's program software that needs to be installed to be able to use an HDMI interface- ASIO4ALL- which is mentioned on page 30 of the guide. Otherwise renov8r, you would be correct BTW, that link you provided only goes to a "404 Not Found" page. Or is it just me?
Edited by Helson (10/24/17 11:02 AM)
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Main HT <> 976 <> 7200 <> Ultra-X12 <> sapphire ST2 mkII RF/LF <> sapphire SC center sapphire ST2 mkII SBR/SBL <> sapphire SS SR/SL <> Verizon/DVR <> Vizio M70Q7 <> Oppo UDP-203 <> Amazon 4k Fire TV
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#97000 - 10/24/17 11:58 AM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Desperado
Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 336
Loc: Illinois
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I somehow added a character to the end of the link, I've corrected the link...
That is still the "online" help file, the revisions to the software since then do have support for audio cards with surround via HDMI, but I really am not even sure if it makes sense to get a new computer for just that functionality.
If you want / need a major upgrade for gaming or HTPC that might make sense, but if you have a desktop that supports older audio cards that seems to yield the same results with REW, of course you'd need to move around audio cables a bit more ...
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#97001 - 10/24/17 12:17 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Desperado
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 514
Loc: Canton, MI
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Have you got to the part where it says if your system isn't minimum phase then parametric EQ isn't going to fix it?
From this I take it that the first step should be identifying and fixing any glaring problems in your room. Then re-run REW and tune in the parametric EQ.
From that standpoint I would think REW can be run with your current setup to identify the room problems and, incidentally, get some experience with REW.
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975/7075/SMS-1 Aperion Verus Grand Towers & Bookshelves, Verus Forte Center, Infinity Surrounds, Ultra-X12 Oppo BDP-203, XBOX360, Xbox One LG 65" OLED RR2150 w/Klipsch SCR-2
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#97002 - 10/24/17 01:30 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 283
Loc: USA
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Thanks, and thanks. No I haven't got that far yet. Just getting my feet wet. I do know that I'm going to need some sort of room treatments, but it's also a dual purpose room, not dedicated. I can't wait to get some experience with REW. It does make sense to not get a new PC just for this. I will need a new one at some point either way. I may try it with the current PC first and see how that goes.
_________________________
Main HT <> 976 <> 7200 <> Ultra-X12 <> sapphire ST2 mkII RF/LF <> sapphire SC center sapphire ST2 mkII SBR/SBL <> sapphire SS SR/SL <> Verizon/DVR <> Vizio M70Q7 <> Oppo UDP-203 <> Amazon 4k Fire TV
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#97003 - 10/24/17 05:01 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 10/31/13
Posts: 241
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Hi Stephen,
Manual adjustment of the EQ via the on screen display of the Model 976. I recommend a PC utilizing REW with an HDMI output to the Model 976 and utilizing ASIO4ALL drivers; this allows you to run your tones for each channel independently via one HDMI connection.
I have had good results with the MiniDSP UMIK‑1 USB mic; the serial number can be entered into their website to download the calibration file of your microphone and then you can upload it into REW. That was a bit of a throwback, but HDMI is much more preferable. Initially, you may think to use the headphone-out of the computer and I made the same mistake, but the Model 976's analog input section is pure analog. This means the EQ does not, and cannot, affect the analog inputs because they stay analog through and through and are not converted. You can use the headphone-out to the 7.1 analog inputs to analyze two channels at a time and the frequency response of your speakers in your room. You can then make your changes in the Model 976's EQ, BUT, you would not be able to monitor, visually or audibly, your changes because, again, the analog inputs are not impacted by the EQ. Ultimately, an HDMI connection is necessary to monitor and correct any changes made in the EQ. If you don't want to tinker to that level, and visually see the affect of your EQ changes, analog connections from a headphone output should work just to implement the changes recommended by REW. These changes will then audibly impact all digital audio inputs.
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#97151 - 11/27/17 12:27 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Desperado
Registered: 09/12/05
Posts: 619
Loc: El Cajon, California
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So I have a MacBook Pro with ethernet, firewire, thunderbolt, and two USB ports. One USB port will be used by the mic. Thunderbolt to HDMI seems to be easy using an adapter but which MacBook port is best for using REW with the 976?
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AvFan Outlaw 976 | ATI 2005 | M&K 850s Left, Center & Right, Surround-55s, MX-70B Sub | Harmony 950 remote | Panamax 5100 | OPPO UDP-203 | LG OLED55B7
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#97341 - 12/20/17 11:36 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 04/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: Garland,Tx. USA
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Here is graph of my PSA 15S sub response with REW EQ filters generated for the 976. REW Google photos
_________________________
Paradigm Studio 20v5-fronts Paradigm Studio CC-490v5-center Paradigm Studio 10v5- side surrounds,Monitor surround 3v7-bck surr Oppo UDP-205/LG 65C6 Outlaw 976 prepro/ Emotiva BasX A-700 amp Power Sound Audio 15S
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#97344 - 12/21/17 11:09 AM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: mdanderson]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 22
Loc: San Diego
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Here is graph of my PSA 15S sub response with REW EQ filters generated for the 976. REW Google photos Those photos aren't showing. This message appears. 404. That’s an error. The requested URL was not found on this server. That’s all we know.
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Enlightened Audio Designs (EAD) Ovation Enlightened Audio Designs Powermaster 1000 Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-111FD Aerial Acoustics Model 6 Aerial Acoustics Model 5 RSL Speedwoofer OPPO BDP-103 Panamax MR5100
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#97346 - 12/21/17 11:19 AM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Beachbum1]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 04/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: Garland,Tx. USA
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Thanks for letting me know. I will work on that.
_________________________
Paradigm Studio 20v5-fronts Paradigm Studio CC-490v5-center Paradigm Studio 10v5- side surrounds,Monitor surround 3v7-bck surr Oppo UDP-205/LG 65C6 Outlaw 976 prepro/ Emotiva BasX A-700 amp Power Sound Audio 15S
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#97349 - 12/21/17 11:51 AM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 04/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: Garland,Tx. USA
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Link is working for me.
_________________________
Paradigm Studio 20v5-fronts Paradigm Studio CC-490v5-center Paradigm Studio 10v5- side surrounds,Monitor surround 3v7-bck surr Oppo UDP-205/LG 65C6 Outlaw 976 prepro/ Emotiva BasX A-700 amp Power Sound Audio 15S
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#97354 - 12/21/17 08:14 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: EEman]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 09/07/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Georgia, US of A!
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Have you got to the part where it says if your system isn't minimum phase then parametric EQ isn't going to fix it? You are so right! From this I take it that the first step should be identifying and fixing*any glaring problems in your room. Then re-run REW and tune in the parametric EQ. ...*or minimize their impact. See close. From years ago I recall "pinking" a room or car. In a room making a few small, sometimes mi-nute, location or angle changes made a big dif. In bi amped or tri amped car, just a tiny gain adjustment would typically then suggest, but not require small/subtle GEQ tweaks. From there client could "season to taste". We found those that had decent home systems as reference were downright pleased as is! I'll close w/to I've posted on other related threads: 1. Know your system's specs. Use the f3 as reference and cut ABOVE to level and smooth; NEVER boost near, @, or below the f3. 2a. be careful boosting below 200hz; 2b. be very careful boosting below 100hz; 2c. be VERY, VERY careful boosting below 50hz. 2d. Be EXTREMELY careful boosting below 30hz even if your speaker/sub is rated into the teens. TRY location adjustments & room treatments. 3. EEman please chime in. Boosting any frequency exponentially ups the demands upon your AVR or amp. Moderate EQ changes also intros some phase shift; big EQ changed even more so.
Edited by 975 destroyer (12/21/17 08:15 PM) Edit Reason: Typo
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#97379 - 12/23/17 12:50 AM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: 975 destroyer]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 04/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: Garland,Tx. USA
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Have you got to the part where it says if your system isn't minimum phase then parametric EQ isn't going to fix it? You are so right! From this I take it that the first step should be identifying and fixing*any glaring problems in your room. Then re-run REW and tune in the parametric EQ. ...*or minimize their impact. See close. From years ago I recall "pinking" a room or car. In a room making a few small, sometimes mi-nute, location or angle changes made a big dif. In bi amped or tri amped car, just a tiny gain adjustment would typically then suggest, but not require small/subtle GEQ tweaks. From there client could "season to taste". We found those that had decent home systems as reference were downright pleased as is! I'll close w/to I've posted on other related threads: 1. Know your system's specs. Use the f3 as reference and cut ABOVE to level and smooth; NEVER boost near, @, or below the f3. 2a. be careful boosting below 200hz; 2b. be very careful boosting below 100hz; 2c. be VERY, VERY careful boosting below 50hz. 2d. Be EXTREMELY careful boosting below 30hz even if your speaker/sub is rated into the teens. TRY location adjustments & room treatments. 3. EEman please chime in. Boosting any frequency exponentially ups the demands upon your AVR or amp. Moderate EQ changes also intros some phase shift; big EQ changed even more so. Thanks for your advice and input given by EEman as well. Right now I am using the EQ filters generated by REW for my 976 with my subwoofer only. Here is what I got. Freq. Gain Q 57Hz -19.5 2.0 99Hz -14.5 3.6 With the EQ engaged on the 976 the bass is quite smooth decent output.
_________________________
Paradigm Studio 20v5-fronts Paradigm Studio CC-490v5-center Paradigm Studio 10v5- side surrounds,Monitor surround 3v7-bck surr Oppo UDP-205/LG 65C6 Outlaw 976 prepro/ Emotiva BasX A-700 amp Power Sound Audio 15S
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#97382 - 12/23/17 01:39 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 09/07/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Georgia, US of A!
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Do I see -19.5 & -14.5 @ 57hz & 99hz respectively? I say "WOW" but good. What's your sub's f3?
I'm relieved that REW/976 connect are separate! For some time I HAD this notion REW was some how "wired" to the 976 PEQ DSP. That when ya took the readings, ya pressed a button and, bam, (one channel at a time) system EQ'd! But you couldn't see the proposed changes or override any extreme settings.
Awesome! Merry CHRISTmas!
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#97387 - 12/23/17 05:11 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: 975 destroyer]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 04/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: Garland,Tx. USA
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Do I see -19.5 & -14.5 @ 57hz & 99hz respectively? I say "WOW" but good. What's your sub's f3?
I'm relieved that REW/976 connect are separate! For some time I HAD this notion REW was some how "wired" to the 976 PEQ DSP. That when ya took the readings, ya pressed a button and, bam, (one channel at a time) system EQ'd! But you couldn't see the proposed changes or override any extreme settings.
Awesome! Merry CHRISTmas! You are correct with those readings. As for my sub's f3, I don't know what f3 means. You are also right about REW not being directly connected to the 976. It was no big deal though. I just copied the generated filter settings to the EQ of the 976. _________________________
_________________________
Paradigm Studio 20v5-fronts Paradigm Studio CC-490v5-center Paradigm Studio 10v5- side surrounds,Monitor surround 3v7-bck surr Oppo UDP-205/LG 65C6 Outlaw 976 prepro/ Emotiva BasX A-700 amp Power Sound Audio 15S
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#97390 - 12/23/17 06:34 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 09/07/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Georgia, US of A!
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f3 is, in this case, your sub's LF cutoff. For example my towers' f3, per Polk, is 35hz. My front sub rated & tested to 20hz.
_________________________
Samsung 60" LED Outlaw Audio 976 Samsung BD player, Phillips CD chgr, Dish DVR, Firestick
Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids*, inside & out 8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out
LR: Tri-amped Polk RTi A7 Rotel RB980s -> woofers; Rotel RB981s -> mids w/phase plugs & tweeters CC: bi-amped Polk CSi A6 -> Rotel RB981 SWs: Sunfire & 4 Audio Pros - LFE True Sig; 4 Evidence - 1 @ ea corner Surrounds: Rotel RB981 -> Polk RTi A3 Power Conditioning & Distribution: 3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman MP-20s
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#97391 - 12/23/17 06:54 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: 975 destroyer]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 04/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: Garland,Tx. USA
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f3 is, in this case, your sub's LF cutoff. For example my towers' f3, per Polk, is 35hz. My front sub rated & tested to 20hz.
The PSA website has my sub rated down to 19Hz.
_________________________
Paradigm Studio 20v5-fronts Paradigm Studio CC-490v5-center Paradigm Studio 10v5- side surrounds,Monitor surround 3v7-bck surr Oppo UDP-205/LG 65C6 Outlaw 976 prepro/ Emotiva BasX A-700 amp Power Sound Audio 15S
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#97427 - 12/27/17 11:22 AM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: AvFan]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 03/09/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Folsom CA
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So I have a MacBook Pro with ethernet, firewire, thunderbolt, and two USB ports. One USB port will be used by the mic. Thunderbolt to HDMI seems to be easy using an adapter but which MacBook port is best for using REW with the 976? Use your Thunderbolt port. I have an iMac and have been playing around with REW prior to installing the 976. The latest Beta version of REW for MAC (5.19) has been updated to include equalizer settings for the 976 (Nice). With 5.19, you will be able to access each individual channel in the measurements window after setting up the HDMI cable and powering on the 976. You will need to select HDMI out from the Sound Preferences panel on the MAC.
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Outlaw 976 Outlaw 7500 OPPO-103 Sony Bravia 52" XBR DirectV Apple TV Infinity Speakers Home Built Sub+800 WRMS Amp Blue Jeans and PPC Cables Phillips Home Theater Power Conditioner Wi-Fi "ac" connected
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#97730 - 02/06/18 06:59 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Outlaw Ben]
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Desperado
Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Monterey Park, CA
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Initially, you may think to use the headphone-out of the computer and I made the same mistake, but the Model 976's analog input section is pure analog. This means the EQ does not, and cannot, affect the analog inputs because they stay analog through and through and are not converted. That's for the 7.1 analogue inputs only, right? The 2-channel analogue inputs are digitized, so EQ can be applied to stereo analogue sources (like the headphone out of a computer).
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Sanjay
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#97731 - 02/06/18 07:30 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Desperado
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
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The manual isn't quite clear that analog inputs are not affected by EQ. I have the same question because it seems to be an all or nothing proposition.
Quote from page 31 of the manual: Note: Because the Model 976’s analog inputs stay analog through and through, the EQ does not aff ect your analog sources. This also means you will want to use an HDMI output from your computer to an HDMI input on the Model 976 should you chose to utilize REW.
_________________________
Music system Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD APC H15 Power Conditioner
TV System Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv
Home Theater System Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv Harmony ONE Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects APC H15 Power Conditioner
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#97732 - 02/06/18 07:30 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Desperado
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
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The manual isn't quite clear that analog inputs are not affected by EQ. I have the same question because it seems to be an all or nothing proposition.
Quote from page 31 of the manual: Note: Because the Model 976’s analog inputs stay analog through and through, the EQ does not affect your analog sources. This also means you will want to use an HDMI output from your computer to an HDMI input on the Model 976 should you chose to utilize REW.
_________________________
Music system Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD APC H15 Power Conditioner
TV System Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv
Home Theater System Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv Harmony ONE Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects APC H15 Power Conditioner
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#97733 - 02/06/18 09:26 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 88
Loc: Shawinigan, PQ, Canada
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Per this text in the manual, it would seem that the analog inputs are not digitized. However, if you use the Main/Sub mode on analog stereo sources, there has to be a crossover. An analog crossovers.
Or maybe the analog stereo inputs really are digitized, and Outlaw are more or less unaware of that fact. If you use the FM tuner (an analog source) and press the Info button, the third item being displayed is "PCM". Which is the technical term for a digital signal... makes you wonder what's going on there!
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#97737 - 02/07/18 11:24 AM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Desperado
Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Monterey Park, CA
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Tried using one of the 2-channel analogue inputs and the signal was digitized (EQ affected the sound). Got in touch with Outlaw and they confirmed that the manual is in error.
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Sanjay
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#97739 - 02/07/18 01:07 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 88
Loc: Shawinigan, PQ, Canada
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Ah!
IMHO, this is not a problem, as these days the conversion is done at such a high quality that it is irrelevant. I'd rather have proper EQ and crossover in DSP than a "pure analog" path.
However, isn't is strange that this information is emerging a year after the initial product announcement and 6 weeks into the sales!
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#97740 - 02/07/18 01:56 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Deputy Gunslinger
Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 14
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
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Here is a quote from the Outlaw Audio product page for the 976. "The analog audio inputs stay analog through and through to maintain signal purity". Can anyone from Outlaw comment?
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#97742 - 02/07/18 03:16 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Deromax]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 09/07/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Georgia, US of A!
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IMHO, this is not a problem, as these days the conversion is done at such a high quality that it is irrelevant. I'd rather have proper EQ and crossover in DSP than a "pure analog" path. Ditto However, isn't is strange that this information is emerging a year after the initial product announcement and 6 weeks into the sales! take the blessing and run w/it.
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#97746 - 02/07/18 05:18 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Deromax]
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Desperado
Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Monterey Park, CA
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However, isn't is strange that this information is emerging a year after the initial product announcement and 6 weeks into the sales! It happens. Outlaws are people too. One mistake in an otherwise excellent manual is not bad. Heck, the manual for the recent Denon 8500 caused excitement when it said that Dolby's upmixer would feed Wides, only to find out that it wasn't true. And, unlike the mistake in the Denon manual, at least the error in the 976 manual has a positive outcome: we end up with a capability we didn't know we had.
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Sanjay
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#97747 - 02/07/18 06:01 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: sdurani]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 10/31/13
Posts: 241
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Yes, this is in regards to the multi-channel analog ins which you might naturally be inclined to use with REW. For example, you cannot take the stereo line level output (or even headphone output) from your computer and use it to connect to L and R and then LS and RS, etc to test the system.
If the stereo inputs were not digitized, you could not have bass management or any upmixing.
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#97748 - 02/07/18 06:21 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Desperado
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
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Outlaw Ben...which analog inputs are analog through and through. Your previous answer seems to imply that none are.
_________________________
Music system Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD APC H15 Power Conditioner
TV System Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv
Home Theater System Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv Harmony ONE Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects APC H15 Power Conditioner
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#97749 - 02/07/18 06:25 PM
Re: REW for 976
[Re: Helson]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 10/31/13
Posts: 241
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The 7.1, multi-channel inputs are analog through and through.
Somewhat related, but you might find interesting, because channel levels as well as bass and treble controls are done in the analog domain they still impact the 7.1 analog inputs. The PEQ and crossovers, on the other hand, do not.
Edited by Outlaw Ben (02/07/18 06:26 PM)
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