Don't forget the crazy little clocks.

Lots to agree with but some assumptions / suggestions are a leap...

I think that anyone who doubts the value of high quality automated DSP & equalization in a home-theatre oriented world where the target of upwards of dozen speakers is the goal is completely out of touch. 975 might still sound pretty good but it is a dead-end.

Outlaw is run by a guy with enough experience in the business to know this and beyond the issues that they have shared Peter is also somebody that won't try to sell something that would frustrate / disappoint customers. If that means he has to work with the suppliers and technology license firms at their pace he has proven he'll do whatever it takes.

That said you are kidding yourself if you think because "Outlaw" the online store has any clout with D&M to partner on developing anything. Fact is Peter almost certainly sells few units in a whole year than other more "sales oriented" stores sell in a month.

I also know enough about audio electronics, general digital electronics, and especially software development that in a world where Object Oriented digital sound products are the norm it is laughable to call any of the required circuitry "cruft". You end up sounding like some British member of the House of Lords who fondly remembers having a Land Rover on safari that ran on leaded gas with a carburetor and test drives a Tesla: "Splendid ride Mr. Musk but you'll simply have to drop the cruft of auto-pilot and touchscreens before I'd consider it...". I'm flabbergasted by folks who fail to see that the "power" of advanced pre-pro for home theatre is in minimizing noise floor, extended headroom, accurate digital-to-analog conversion. That is NOT cruft anymore than the whole advanced electric power train / battery tech is what makes a Tesla desirable.
Folks with an outdated notion of pre-pro being tweaked with hand selected capacitors and coil ought to go shop for the audio equivalent of carbuerated Rover, pretty sure when you hear the noise you'll remember what is really "crufty"..,


Beyond that, Peter has previously seen what happens when "contract manufacturers" get nasty grams from their larger "partners" and that sort of thing means he has to walk a tightrope in making something that delivers value / is attractive to customers while keeping his status as an authorized Marantz seller.

I am pretty sure that Peter will not disappoint anyone. As long as he runs this business I know he'll do all he can to be honest with customers and ensure he keeps the lights on!

As far as the HEOS circuitry I fail to see how it is essential to anyone except those who desire whole house wireless systems. Cruft would appear to be an accurate description IMHO. As far as Peter not disappointing customers that ship sailed years ago with the 997/998/978 series of processor failures. When Outlaw announced the Phoenix it would have been leading edge in the Atmos/DTS war. Two years later it is way behind the eight ball. The 975 was a value oriented stopgap but it is also an entry level device and without the bells and whistles that are standard stuff on similarly priced processors and receivers. I don't anticipate the new processor at all anymore because it is so late. Still, I would be interested when I replace my current setup because the customer service is so good.

I don't believe the Outlaw Atmos/Dts:X pre pro is behind any eight ball. Let's remember there's still some avr's & pre pros out there that still haven't gotten their DTS:X firmware download. I'm really curious what Outlaw has cooking because most of the Atmos/Dts:X pre pros out there are basically avr's minus the amp section, while the Outlaw was designed strictly as a preamp. Plus, I understand the upmixers are really good, but there's not exactly a ton of content in the immersive audio formats so far.

While I understand the whole "We're waiting for software, it's out of our control" thing, at this point the hardware of the new pre/pro should be etched in stone. I'd like to know some basics like: what type of room correction (if any...), how many HDMI inputs/outputs, what kind of DAC's, etc. I sure hope an update is on it's way soon.

It is behind the eight ball, because it is 18 months late and it doesn't even have a name/number yet. The original announcement in mid 2014 looked pretty good but...everyone else has come out with setups for 7.1.4 and the Phoenix was slated as 5.1.2 with no announced room correction. Outlaw hasn't given out any info, so unless they have redesigned it, it won't be the groundbreaking piece of gear we were expecting. Depending on the $$$ it may not be competitive with the rest of the market. UHD TV and HDR displays require SOTA hardware and firmware and the industry may just be moving too fast for smaller companies to keep up.

You are incorrect...according to the Outlaw announcement, the "Phoenix" as you call it will be 7.2.4

My Bad. If anyone has the original announcement please post it.

TL5 wrote: " I'd like to know some basics like: what type of room correction (if any...), how many HDMI inputs/outputs, what kind of DAC's, etc. I sure hope an update is on it's way soon."

+1 If software is the holdup, I'd think a hardware announcement would be doable at this time.

After a string of high profile mulligans preceded by pre-release hype, I wouldn't hold your breath. If the device is released at all, I'd expect it to make an appearance when it is available for sale without the tease. The software IS the product.

I still expect them to release a new pre at some point. I'm also willing to bet they're using the delays to add as much of the current hotness as is practical. I think the Outlaws will surprise a lot of folks when the Phoenix takes flight.

That said, I don't blame them one bit for being tight lipped about this and any other projects they may have brewing. The backlash in the past was pretty spectacular.