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#95944 - 08/08/16 12:09 PM External Phono Pre-amp
cowgoboo Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 6
Hey all,

I've had the RR2150 for years now and love it, but am looking to upgrade the phono pre-amp. The phono section is noticeably quieter than other inputs. Has anyone installed a separate phono preamp and seen increased volume? Or is the advantage more in sound clarity than level?

Thoughts? Suggestions? Insults?

Alex

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#95946 - 08/08/16 04:36 PM Re: External Phono Pre-amp [Re: cowgoboo]
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
The phono input is almost always going to be quieter than other sources mostly because the supplied signal is very small compared to the other sources. You can get phono cartridges with higher outputs which can help a lot but may introduce more noise. A different preamp may help but how much will depend on what you get. Go to NeedleDoctor.com and check out some of the options.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

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#95947 - 08/09/16 02:20 AM Re: External Phono Pre-amp [Re: cowgoboo]
AvFan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/12/05
Posts: 619
Loc: El Cajon, California
Originally Posted By cowgoboo
Hey all,

I've had the RR2150 for years now and love it, but am looking to upgrade the phono pre-amp. The phono section is noticeably quieter than other inputs. Has anyone installed a separate phono preamp and seen increased volume? Or is the advantage more in sound clarity than level?

Thoughts? Suggestions? Insults?

Alex


What cartridge are you using with your RR2150? MM. MC, HOMC or ? The RR2150 user manual doesn't say what the gain is for the phono preamp when set to MM or MC but that combined with the cartridge's output determine how loud it is compared to other sources. Many separate phono preamps have selectable gain and a variety of loading choices (particularly helpful with certain MM cartridges) that allow fine tuning the preamp to the cartridge to get the best sound possible. Lots of choices for an outboard phono preamp but the first place to start is your current cartridge.
_________________________
AvFan
Outlaw 976 | ATI 2005 | M&K 850s Left, Center & Right, Surround-55s, MX-70B Sub | Harmony 950 remote | Panamax 5100 | OPPO UDP-203 | LG OLED55B7

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#95948 - 08/09/16 10:38 AM Re: External Phono Pre-amp [Re: cowgoboo]
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
Ben at Outlaw can probably tell us what the gain is on the 2150s phono preamp.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

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#95949 - 08/10/16 09:42 AM Re: External Phono Pre-amp [Re: cowgoboo]
cowgoboo Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 6
I have a Sumiko Oyster cartridge. MM with a 4 mV output.

Yea, I've checked around on Needle Doctor. Just wasn't sure if an upgraded phono preamp would provide significant volume. It sounds great as is so I don't want to shell out $500-1000 on a preamp just to get a small increase in volume.

Maybe a different cartridge with a higher output would be a cheaper option....

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#95950 - 08/10/16 10:07 AM Re: External Phono Pre-amp [Re: cowgoboo]
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
There are a lot of cheaper phono preamps out there. If it sounds great as is, I would leave it as is. There is probably not much to gain from shelling out big bucks for a pre-amp to enhance the Oyster. The law of diminishing returns seems to apply to phono cartridges. I have the Black Pearl and if I were going to get a pre-amp for it I wouldn't spend more than $200 for it. The phono amp in my 990 works just fine for me.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

Top
#95951 - 08/10/16 10:12 AM Re: External Phono Pre-amp [Re: cowgoboo]
cowgoboo Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 6
For full disclosure I'm running a Pro-ject 1-Xpression with the Oyster Cartridge, through the RR2150, to Magnepan MMG speakers, and a M8 Outlaw sub.

Not sure if that makes any difference in any recommendations.

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#95952 - 08/10/16 10:15 AM Re: External Phono Pre-amp [Re: cowgoboo]
cowgoboo Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 6
Xenon-

Thanks for the advice! I tried to do a lot of research to try and nail that law when I originally bought my setup, so good to hear it applies to the preamps too....honestly if it was 500-1000 I'd probably never get around to upgrading anyways. 200 is doable...

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#95953 - 08/10/16 03:28 PM Re: External Phono Pre-amp [Re: cowgoboo]
Outlaw Ben Offline

Gunslinger

Registered: 10/31/13
Posts: 241
You wouldn't want more output from the cartridge, as you do not want to overload the built-in phono pre-amp. The phono pre in the RR2150 has ~60dB of gain.

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#95954 - 08/10/16 05:35 PM Re: External Phono Pre-amp [Re: cowgoboo]
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
Most of the phono pre-amps I have seen have between 35-40 db of gain. If the 2150 has 60 db gain there is no way to get a stronger signal by going to a different pre-amp, unless you spend a lot of $$$. Even then the highest gain I have seen is around 66 db. The input sensitivity of the 2150 is 3.3mv so anything higher than that ought to produce full output. I have heard and read really good things about the Ortofon 2M Red and it will likely be my next cartridge if the Black Pearl dies. The pearl is over 20 years old and still sounds pretty good. Remember something about comparing systems or anything else audio, the louder version always sounds better, so getting a higher output cartridge will likely sound better but might not be better.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

Top
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