yes that WAS true BNR. Upon system power up, line voltage would sag to below 100 VAC then recover.

Scratch your head w/this:
Upon purchase, the 975 ran for 3 weeks w/out a hitch w/the same amp config* w/a damaged neutral w/a gas dryer. Switching to electric dryer made it poop. Didn't learn about the damaged neutral till after the 2nd failure.
* minus Audio Pro
what does that mean?

I doubt that now. Does anyone think a 116VAC sag is a "brownout?!" Sidenote: we did experience a 2 second blackout just before lights out last night. See "Scratch your head" above.

Ponder this this solution: For all low draw equipment, looking at a Panamax conditioner on the Polk flea market for surge protection. Further considering 1 or 2 UPSs. One small (100 VA?), fast acting UPS for the 975. The other to power the everything else. The Xbox, TV, and cable* see the most use, the Xbox drawing over half the combined 6** amps or 725 watts? CD and Blu Ray about 1A each***.
* on all the time
** taken from their PSs
*** Xbox off when they're in use.

During the last failure the Belles Amps (6 amp fuses) were powered by the Furman out of the other 20A outlet* - remember it* has 2! The Hafler (3A fuse) actually wasn't turned on for some reason.

The amps combined draw based upon fuses = 19A*(!) though in actual use their draw probably 1/2 or less. Note: I will add 3 more 3A amps by the time I finish the bi-amping & tri-amping. Before that I will use the Furman** delay turn on feature (2-3 sec) to prevent popping the breaker. They'll, of course, share the dedicated 20A feed but none of the above mention UPSs or protection. I will get the amps protection in due course - one problem at a time
* Audio Pro not in equation - family game engrossed as I type
** BTW I have two Furman Miniport 20s - 20 stands for 20A

yup

Thanks for reading this far, you guys are the best! Tony

If your concern is still the failures of the 975 due to low voltage conditions get a sufficiently rated UPS and just power the 975 from it. Most UPS' have some sort of indication on them when they are providing power. Monitor that function to determine if the 975 is being challenged. I have two 20 amp circuits in my audio room one for the music system and the other for the HT system and I don't have nearly the amp draw that you have. Remember too that the lowest voltage you see may not be the lowest voltage attained due to the limitations of the meters reading fast transients.

Big thanks to Xman!
YUP!! I'm WAY past tired of this problem. To my ear the 975 eats my Rotel RSP-1068 as an appetizer! And it retailed @ 3X the $ over 10 years ago! Still works... ...mostly.
We-e-e-ll... the low power stuff deserve this long over "upgrade" too.
"Sounds" like sound advice. Can't recall if the unused APC 750 at work has that feature - I want to guinea pig w/it though I think the battery is overdo for replacement.
Wish I an "O" scope to take the readings.

A side note: I underestimated the Rotel 985 draw @ 4A. In fact it's rated @ 800 watts @ full power - 6.6A(?) pushing the amps assumed full power current to over 21A plus the Audio Pro. I CAN spell both Furmans for Delay turn on.

As long as we're on the line conditioner topic I need some advice. I have had a Power Wedge 1118 as the conditioner in my system since 1996! Throughout all the changes I've made to my system, it has been there & still remains. It's a beast, weighs almost 50 lbs. I'm going to add another amp when I upgrade to Atmos/DTS:X when Outlaw releases the new pre/pro. Is it time to get a new surge protector/conditioner also? It has never failed me, but I have heard that MOV's degrade over time. I'm wondering if it is still protecting my system at the same level as when new(er). I have plugged a Panamax protector into the receptacle where I plug the Power Wedge into for some peace of mind. I tried contacting the maker of the Power Wedge (API), but got no response. Any advice appreciated!

It means that your amps may actually be causing the damage to the 975 by causing transients/brownouts/noise etc. that get back on the power lines feeding the 975.



Note that although the Furman has two outlets you're still limited to the 20A limit of your circuit. i.e. you can't get 20Amps out of both outlets at the same time.

I'd feel more comfortable if there were on two circuits so you could split the load.

I don't doubt transients & noise but question a brown out. During the Sept 2nd failure, volume was low. Either way you're saying isolate the 975 and feed it steady, clean juice. I want to believe that should be ea$y - it draws just 25 watts.

Unfortunately I struggle w/several aspects of once-and-for-all solving this problem:
1. I don't KNOW what caused the failure this time
2. Therefore, what's the solution? ???
3. SO many different products. MOV versus non, etc, etc. "Does it filter AND regulate?"
4. Easy, cover it all. $$$!! I refuse to just throw $ at it.
Finding something that will provide a measly 50+ watts of clean, steady power w/out spending a lot ($100) has proven frustrating at best. How about an AC-AC transformer ->APC 350? And, say a 750 to cover the other low draw equipment?

Yeah I realize the dedcated feed will SAFELY provide 20 amps total to both jacks. I chose to use the Furman as a 2 outlet strip for the Belles amps mostly out of convenience, powering everything else from the MC. I'd planed to reconfigure in a day or two using the MC for all low-draw, Furman for all amps & sub but the temperamental 975 PS has other ideas. Remember it ran trouble free for 3 weeks w/a damaged neutral.

Perhaps I could run an extension cord from a different circuit as a temporary "dedicated" low draw-only power source. I regret I didn't do a better job sizing up power requirements - I never imagined just my sub & existing amp powering my LCR could theoretically max the new feed.

At the time, running a second line would been a just little more work. On the other hand, even in its finished configuration, I'd be shocked if it actually exceeded the line capacity.

I'm more than a little tempted to live w/a fractionally higher electrical bill. Namely scrap/bypass the 975 PS. Salvage the PS from a Rotel RSP-980* - they're robust. Failing that, build old-school regulated PS(s) w/ additional bits and pieces for filtering. It wouldn't $ anything near or take up space like what some suggest I buy.
* Rotel RSP-1068 is still truckin' along too; both have dead channels

Thank for reading this far. I apologize if my negative feelings come across in my writing.

I believe you may have made your system too complicated. I understand your desire to get the most out of every piece of equipment, but providing separate amps for each driver in your system seems a bit self defeating. I agree with EEMAN that you should seek a second circuit to split the load. Adding power conditioners is also adding load to the circuit as they are not passive devices and do use some power. Is it possible to re-purpose a receptacle in an adjacent room on a shared wall to use in your audio room. The fact that the 975 survived for three weeks in a circuit that had a bad neutral is just happenstance or good design by Outlaw. In any case you can probably call Outlaw and they can tell you what the failure was in the 975 from when they did the repair. It might narrow down the possible reasons for the failure.

Do the back feeding and transients from the amplifiers only occur at amplifier start and is it preventable? I would have thought this would be a function of the power control centers available for HT systems.

Maybe this? Some folks say it has the same "guts" as the rack mount unit with a more "household friendly" package, but others miss the steel construction -- http://www.walmart.com/ip/10730571?wmlsp...271&veh=sem

I would still like to know what was happening right at power on, is everything still powering on at the same time? I looked at the Monster site for your surge suppressor. The literature says it should protect from transients from outside sources but says nothing of anything unpleasant that might be created by something plugged into the strip itself.

We talked about this but others here know the tech side to a much greater extent than I so will probably see something I would miss. Here I run everything from a single 15 amp circuit without issue but am careful to never turn on everything at the same time. Running separate surge suppression I keep the amps separate from anything with a processor on board. Based on what I am seeing in my own system my monster Adcom probably pulls its heaviest load at power on.

Here I am looking at just over 120,000 uf of power supply capacitance at start if I turned on every amp at the same time. (not counting the SW but being class D I doubt it would have much effect) You are at almost four times that amount. It has to have an effect. It would be great if one of the techies would take time to explain what might happen.

Xenon is correct in stating your meter is not necessarily showing everything. My DMM is of the "averaging" type so would not give the actual highs and lows. Shoots my idea of the clamp on amp/voltage meter showing anything we do not know now.

How much current does a class A/B amplifier pull just sitting turned on with no input signal applied? I understand this is relative to the amp but in general. I still think you could solve the problem by bringing the amps up first to get any potential nastiness out of the way before the sensitive stuff comes into play.

It is an interesting puzzle.

Looking around at the DIY sites one of the first upgrades to signal path components is the power supply. I would like to get one of your kills for a bit of fun time and experimentation. Better power supply and film cap/resistor upgrades in the signal path might yield something pretty cool.