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#94872 - 02/22/15 05:03 AM Re: Bitstream problem [Re: Midnight]
singing italian Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 27
Been away from the Outlaws for some time. Need help.

Problem: I purchased a new Oppo BDP-105d. When I set the digital output on the Oppo to bitstream I get audio dropouts,loud pops and distortion when watching VUDU or NETFLIX. I have exchanged 3 105 players and all 3 did the same thing.
Oppo told me it was because the 990 was old and did not process the new Dolby Digital Plus. I was instructed to set the Oppo 105 digital output to LPCM192 which I did and it corrected the problem. The problem now is the sound quality is greatly reduced. Using the 990 I get better envelopment of the surround channels with a greater feeling of spaciousness to the sound. I use the Outlaw 990 7.1 outputs to Oppo 7.1 input for blue ray movies and high resolution sacd audio but normal 5.1 on VUDU and NTFLIX sounds better with Outlaws own DACS. If I reinstall my old player the problem goes completely away.
Is there any type of work around I can do to correct this or am I stuck.


Edited by singing italian (02/23/15 02:53 AM)

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#94874 - 02/22/15 09:14 AM Re: Bitstream problem [Re: singing italian]
rdgrimes Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/31/14
Posts: 45
Originally Posted By: singing italian

Oppo told me it was because the 990 was old and did not process the new
Dolby Digital Plus. I was instructed to set the Oppo 105 digital output to LPCM192 which I did and it corrected the problem. The problem is the sound quality is greatly reduced. The 990 D/A converters sound better to me in my surroundings using the 990's DACS.
I use the Outlaw 990 7.1 outputs to Oppo 7.1 input for blue ray movies and
high resolution sacd audio but normal 5.1 on VUDU and NTFLIX sounds better with Outlaws own DACS. If I reinstall my old player the problem goes completely away.
Is there any type of work around I can do to correct this or am I stuck.


Setting the Oppo to output PCM has nothing to do with DAC, that conversion is done in the decoder. I assume you use SPDIF to the Outlaw for this. Most likely the difference you hear is simply the result of different levels that result from PCM vs bitstream input.

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#94875 - 02/22/15 10:14 AM Re: Bitstream problem [Re: Midnight]
Stephen B Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/15/15
Posts: 214
Loc: East Texas
The cabling could get a bit cluttered but why not run the BDP-105D as a stand alone device? It is fully capable of operating as its own pre/pro.

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#94876 - 02/22/15 01:46 PM Re: Bitstream problem [Re: Midnight]
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
When the OPPO is set to LPCM it is doing the decoding of the audio tracks on the disc and sending it to the 990 which understands LPCM and does some bass management functions and sends that to the amp. If VUDU or NetFlix are coming to the 990 as bitstream you are depending on the 990 to do the decoding which it can do for all the older formats of DTS and Dolby. If the source material from streaming is set up for the newer formats the 990 may have some issues trying to decode them. Setting your OPPO to LPCM bypasses the decoding issues of the 990 and cures the problem. It also makes use of the highest quality DACs in your system. Those DACs are what make the OPPO 105D so expensive so you might as well use them. The best pathway is as described above to use the analog outputs from the OPPO to the 990 analog inputs and let the OPPOO do all decoding.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

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#94877 - 02/22/15 07:19 PM Re: Bitstream problem [Re: rdgrimes]
singing italian Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 27
I also own a Oppo BDP-95. When I connect the (S/PDIF)coax output from the 95 to the Outlaw 990 coax digital input I do not experience the same dropout issues. Why doesn't the 95 experience the dropouts using the same output setting?
This also doesn't explain the difference in gain between the S/PDIF and the LPCm192. I understand the better DACS are in the Oppo but their is more to sound then just DACS. Many things effect sound. But why does the S/PDIF output of the 105 not work on the Outlaw to begin with. What changes were assigned to the "NEW" Dolby Digital Plus that make it better? Also when using the S/PDIF coax output the sound has better dynamics and a more engaging sound field with more surround information then when using the LPCM192. I bought the Oppo 105 for better video quality and flexibility over the 95.I did not expect to throw away the 990 DACS to when viewing NETFIX and VUDU. When I watch DIRECTV I do not have these dropout compatibility issues. Why are they issues with NETFLIX and VUDU to begin with. Using the 95 allowed me to pick either Sabre DACS or Analog Devices on Outlaw. I liked that.


Edited by singing italian (02/23/15 02:32 AM)

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#94879 - 02/22/15 09:15 PM Re: Bitstream problem [Re: Midnight]
singing italian Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 27
Outputs: 4 volts Oppo 105 vs 9 volts output Outlaw 990. This explains the gain difference as well as the added head room. This also explains why many feel you need a preamp in front of the 105. In theory 2 volt output can drive most amplifiers to full output. In reality this seldom works you lose base impact and dynamic range. To test this theory I put a 4 channel class A active crossover between the BDP-105 7.1 output(I use 5.1)and the 7.1 input (again I use 5.1 only)of the Outlaw input. (The active crossover will swing 14 volts). The surrounds are set to small in Outlaw. The activate crossover does 3 fronts and sub. In this setup when I use 7.1 with LPCM192 the dynamics are restored and using the 105 as a preamp would work. It still will not fix the bitstream issue to the 990 but the gain and dynamics are back.
I got this idea from theta digital. All of their stand alone D/A

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#94884 - 02/23/15 02:28 AM Re: Bitstream problem [Re: Midnight]
singing italian Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 27
Sorry about that I messed up the last part:
Here is the entire statement:
Outputs: Oppo 105 4 volts vs 9 volts output Outlaw 990. This explains the gain difference as well as the added head room. This also explains why many feel you need a preamp in front of the 105. In theory 2 volt output can drive most amplifiers to full output. In reality this seldom works you lose base impact and dynamic range. To test this theory I put a 4 channel class A active crossover between the BDP-105 7.1 output(I use 5.1)and the 7.1 input (again I use 5.1 only)of the Outlaw input. (The active crossover will swing 14 volts). The surrounds are set to small in Outlaw. The activate crossover does 3 fronts and sub. In this setup when I use 7.1 with LPCM192 and play NETFLIX or VUDU the dynamics are restored and using the 105 as a preamp would work. It still will not fix the bitstream issue to the 990 but the gain and dynamics are back.
I got this idea from theta digital. All of their stand alone D/A converters swing massive output volts. THETA Digital explained years ago how this enhanced dynamics and headroom. I tried it. Whatever the reason it works.
I know audio advances I just don't see what the Dolby Digital Plus brings to Netflix. I would not classify their picture quality and sound as high end. I'm using 40 mps speed. Its ok but certainly not great.
What do you guys think?


Edited by singing italian (02/23/15 02:31 AM)

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#94885 - 02/23/15 09:01 AM Re: Bitstream problem [Re: singing italian]
rdgrimes Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/31/14
Posts: 45
Originally Posted By: singing italian

I know audio advances I just don't see what the Dolby Digital Plus brings to Netflix.


Amazon is using it too. What it brings is better compression.

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#94890 - 02/23/15 05:33 PM Re: Bitstream problem [Re: Midnight]
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
I think you may be some sort of mad scientist. Can't comment on the streaming aspect as that is something I am unable to do at the moment. The problem we will all run into eventually is the there isn't enough available bandwidth to support HD video and audio.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

Top
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