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#95164 - 06/14/15 08:12 AM Re: Comments on the Model 975 Software Update [Re: Outlaw Nancy]
Cain Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 06/08/02
Posts: 44
Loc: South Carolina
I just saw this, can I still get the update cable, etc. for my 975? I was one of the very first ones shipped.

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#95168 - 06/15/15 04:06 PM Re: Comments on the Model 975 Software Update [Re: Cain]
Outlaw Ben Offline

Gunslinger

Registered: 10/31/13
Posts: 239
Cain,

Please email 975softwareupdate@outlawaudio.com with your name, contact and ship to information, as well as the unit's serial number so we can get started on sending you an updater cable.

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#95533 - 12/06/15 05:49 PM Re: Comments on the Model 975 Software Update [Re: Outlaw Nancy]
mtomer Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 02/27/13
Posts: 5
Loc: PA
I am having a number of issues, some related to the update, one not. I am currently running a 975 with a 7500. Most recently, my TV died, so I bought a new one yesterday (Vizio M70-C3). I immediately had two issues. First, ground loop noise has returned. Like many others, I spent hours and hours chasing this down in the past, and the only thing that worked was switching ONLY the Blu-ray HDMI through the 975 (the cable box HDMI went straight to the TV, and I used the optical for audio). Not ideal, but it worked. As soon as I got the new TV, this no longer worked. Even if the only things connected and plugged in are the 975, the Blu-ray, and the cable box, the hum is still there. It goes away if I have one source or the other connected.

To make matters worse, the TV will not recognize the picture from the 975! If I connect the Blu-ray directly, it works fine, and it will recognize the on screen display, but not the picture. So, I figured I'd try the update, which I had never done because the only laptop I have is an old Mac that is incompatible with the updater. So, I hauled my iMac, running El Capitan, into the living room to install the update. Like a poster above, I got to the point where it won't let me select a serial port. So at this point, I can't watch movies, and even if I could I'd have to swap HDMI cables every time I switched sources. I may try sending both HDMI signals directly to the TV, and using optical for the audio for both.

I was willing to give Outlaw a pass for the ground loop issues, but at this point I am beyond infuriated. I have literally spent days fighting with this thing, which is inexcusable given the cost. This is not a $200 receiver. The 975 and 7500 should work properly together, but clearly they do not. I expect more, especially in view of my experience with SVS, which has been a delight.

Rant off - any suggestions people have would be welcomed.

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#95534 - 12/06/15 08:36 PM Re: Comments on the Model 975 Software Update [Re: Outlaw Nancy]
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
Disconnect everything except the 975 and the 7500. Pull all the cables from the 975 and from the wall except for those connections. Fire up the 975 and listen to the radio tuner on a strong station (doesn't matter type of music). Is the hum there or not. If it is, you need to make sure that the 975 and the amp share a common ground at the wall receptacle. Each receptacle has three prongs. One is hot and one is ground and one is neutral. The neutral and ground are connected at the breaker box so they should be the same ground plane. The hum comes from two devices not having a common ground plane and a differential voltage causes the noise. Also make sure there are no stray wire strands touching each other at the speaker connections on the back of the 975 and at the speakers. If the noise is still there try powering the equipment from another receptacle on a different circuit using an extension cord. The problem could be inside the wall if a wiring connection is a little loose or slightly ungrounded.

Now, lets assume that the noise is gone with just the 975/7500 connected. Connect your bluray player via HDMI and listen to it for the noise. If it is there, you need to again find out why the ground plane is different between the BDP and the 975/7500. I have a lot of success plugging all my equipment into the same power source with one common ground.

Do this for your TV and cable box. 9 out of 10 times the ground loop comes from the cable box because it s grounded differently than the house wiring system.

If I read you correctly, when the BDP is connected the TV can see the OSD from the BDP but not the picture from the BDP. Check to make sure the BDP is outputting a signal the TV can see and that the TV is set to receive a 1080P signal. The newer sets are UHD and may need to be set to see a signal less that 4K. I would expect the problem lies between the TV and the Input signal. I would also only use HDMI to start for the obvious reasons.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

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#95535 - 12/06/15 11:23 PM Re: Comments on the Model 975 Software Update [Re: Outlaw Nancy]
mtomer Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 02/27/13
Posts: 5
Loc: PA
Thanks. I tried most or all of the things you suggested a couple of years ago when I had the initial ground loop problem, but I may have swapped the cable box since then, so I will try again tomorrow. Six hours of fighting with this is enough for today. BTW, part of the original problem was a torch lamp I had on a separate circuit in another part of the house. Once I removed the lamp, that part of the problem went away.

Also - I made an editing error in my initial post. The TV will recognize the OSD, but not the picture, if the signal is coming from the 975. Everything works perfectly if the signal is coming directly from the Blu-ray. Since my initial post I have also found that every once in a while it will work fine - there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to when it decides to work (I've tried multiple inputs also). I will look to see whether I can adjust for a 1080p signal, but I'm not sure why it would work straight from the Blu-ray and not from the 975.

It is just very frustrating to me that this equipment is so sensitive to a variety of things.

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#95536 - 12/07/15 12:34 AM Re: Comments on the Model 975 Software Update [Re: Outlaw Nancy]
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
Almost sounds like some sort of handshake issue between the TV and the 975. Try going into the TV settings and see if you can turn off the upscaling function of the TV to get the 1080P picture from the 975. The 975 does upscaling of its own but the OSD may not be output at 1080P.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

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#95537 - 12/07/15 11:18 AM Re: Comments on the Model 975 Software Update [Re: Outlaw Nancy]
Helson Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 270
Loc: USA
@mtomer...With any HDMI connected system, your connected devices fall onto three categories termed,
sink, sender and repeater.

The TV or monitor is the sink device, which receives the HDMI signal.
The AV receiver or processor, is an HDMI repeater device, which can send and receive HDMI signals.
Any input source device is an HDMI sender.

The HDMI sink, (TV or monitor) is the device that is most responsible for completing a successful HDCP handshake.

It is a far more complicated handshake procedure whenever any repeater device is in the mix. Some source devices originally did not support repeaters. Some of these needed a firmware update in order to accommodate them, and there still are some devices in the market that do not, like some of the cables boxes still in use.

The fact you are able to get the OSD and not the video, tells me that the issue is between the source device(s) and the 975.

Whenever a new HDMI connected device is added to any system, and you're having difficulty with handshaking, there is an established HDMI reset procedure to try.

Xenonman's procedure above (#99534) is pretty much the way to approach this. You should try disconnecting all HDMI cables at both ends and unplugging all devices from AC power. Then you can reconnect all the HDMI cables again , before reconnecting all the AC power cables.

With the new TV, are you using Hi-speed HDMI cables?
_________________________
Main HT <> 976 <> 7200 <> Ultra-X12 <> sapphire ST2 mkII RF/LF <> sapphire SC center
sapphire ST2 mkII SBR/SBL <> sapphire SS SR/SL <> Verizon/DVR <> Vizio E70U-D3 <> Oppo UDP-203 <> Amazon 4k Fire TV

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#95539 - 12/07/15 11:23 AM Re: Comments on the Model 975 Software Update [Re: mtomer]
Outlaw Ben Offline

Gunslinger

Registered: 10/31/13
Posts: 239
Your email has been received, and I would be happy to assist you; please expect a response shortly. Xenonman describes ground loop perfectly; as such, you can see that the Model 975 or Model 7500 is not to blame for this. Ground loop is a ground differential.

In the email, we will work through isolating these two separate issues and troubleshooting them. I am sorry to hear you've had to spend so much time trying to solve these difficulties. At Outlaw, we pride ourselves in our customer service. In the future, please do not hesitate to contact us via email, at customerservice@outlawaudio.com, or via phone M-F 9:00am - 5:00pm EST at (866) OUTLAWS with any problems you may be experiencing so we can be of assistance.

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#95543 - 12/07/15 10:31 PM Re: Comments on the Model 975 Software Update [Re: Outlaw Nancy]
mtomer Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 02/27/13
Posts: 5
Loc: PA
Thanks everyone for your help. I haven't had time to try everything, but based on these responses and info from another thread, I've done some additional experimentation:

I discovered that if I slightly loosen the coax cable going into my cable box, the hum disappears. Im still getting a signal, so this appears to be a reasonable workaround. Im wondering if there are cables available that specifically address this problem.

I experimented with different HDMI inputs on the TV, and seem to have found one that works. Most of them are labeled 4k 30hz, but one in particular seems to work. The others work very intermittently. In the instances where the TV wont recognize the signal, I usually see nothing on the screen - merely a message that it cant find the signal. However, one input will show a green screen. Additionally, sometimes the audio drops out when it will not recognize the picture. Assuming that the good input continues working, I am content for now. My backup plan was to buy a new Blu-ray player with two HDMI outputs, and run one into the 975 and one into the TV (my current player is an old Sony BDP-S550, with all firmware updates). Maybe a newer player would eliminate the handshake issue anyway. However, Id rather wait until 4k players become available.

Im not sure whether the HDMI cables are high speed. Ive tried several, ranging from 2-4 years old and 3-6 feet long (all from monoprice). In all cases, the cables were good going directly from the Blu-ray to the TV, and worked fine from the 975 into the old TV.

Thanks again!

Edit - I forgot to mention that I am running a native signal through the 975.


Edited by mtomer (12/07/15 10:34 PM)
Edit Reason: forgot to mention

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#95544 - 12/08/15 10:06 AM Re: Comments on the Model 975 Software Update [Re: Outlaw Nancy]
Helson Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 270
Loc: USA
"I discovered that if I slightly loosen the coax cable going into my cable box, the hum disappears. Im still getting a signal, so this appears to be a reasonable workaround. Im wondering if there are cables available that specifically address this problem."

You can try this isolator as one possible solution...

http://www.amazon.com/Viewsonics-VSIS-EU...d+loop+isolator

"My backup plan was to buy a new Blu-ray player with two HDMI outputs, and run one into the 975 and one into the TV (my current player is an old Sony BDP-S550, with all firmware updates). Maybe a newer player would eliminate the handshake issue anyway. However, Id rather wait until 4k players become available."

Bear in mind, you will need a processor that is compatible with 4k, HDCP 2.2, when you plan on using a HDCP 2.2 source device. The 975 is not HDCP 2.2.
_________________________
Main HT <> 976 <> 7200 <> Ultra-X12 <> sapphire ST2 mkII RF/LF <> sapphire SC center
sapphire ST2 mkII SBR/SBL <> sapphire SS SR/SL <> Verizon/DVR <> Vizio E70U-D3 <> Oppo UDP-203 <> Amazon 4k Fire TV

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