Well I recently swapped out an Onkyo 808 Reciever. Since I got an HDTV with HDMI about 3 years ago, I sold all my separates and got a reciever. Overall a good unit, but never sounded as nice as previous Outlaw / Parasound combinations. With the release of the 975 I decided to go to an outlaw 975/7125 combo.

My thoughts so far on the 975/7125 setup:

a) Frustrations:
- Even through the 7125 is more powerful than my old reciever. My system no longer "goes to 11". On those odd days where I really want to blast, the system caps out. Never experienced this with any prior system (same speakers for 10 years). Max DB I can reach is about 100db. Probably too lound anyway, but I occasionally like to make my ears bleed (haha)
- With all of the connections stuffed on the back with so little realestate, why only 5 audio combinations. totally fine with 4 HDMI video, by why not separate audio only config for coax or optical or analog?
- The remote sent with the amp is CRAP. Appreciate I will eventually get the replacement, but this is complete junk.
- When comparing my Oppo BDP-83SE analog output to the digital stereo decoding on the 975, the Oppo wins hands down! Way nicer on the Oppo.

b) Equipment combo issues:
- Seem to be getting the occasional HDMI handshake issue, but not sure if it is the Mistsubishi WD-65C9 TV or the 975.
- My new apply TV (ver 3) does not send sound at all via HDMI. I am currently researching, if anyone has this combo without issue please reply.

c) What I like:
- The sound on blue ray and regular cable TV is much improved over the Onkyo. More detailed, cleaner sounding, more full sound.
- The analog section is very good (like the old 990). The Oppo playing music via analog is simply stunning.
- The expanded base manipulations in setup add welcome functionality. I can now tone down my LFE channel, while boosting the sub for 2 channel music.
- The price seems fair, not withstanding the "goes to 11 complaint".

d) What I do not miss:
- Oddessey room correction.
- The Onkyo had too many features to use.

Final assessment. I actually sat on the fence to return over the Christmas holidays. But I did feel that when listening at normal levels the sound quality has improved over the Onkyo. Listening to the Oppo (via analog) to the Outlaw combo has been a Joy. Even 320K MP3 files sound really good.

For now I will keep.

This is, I think, the 2nd or 3rd user that has reported that the volume doesn't quite go as loud as they would like. Is this an issue with the 975 or it's setup, or is it just the user's particular system?

Adrian L

Please call Scott at 866-688-5292. I am sure he can help you with a couple of your issues.


By the way, we agree with you that the remote leaves something to be desired. (That is charitable) We made the choice to ship the unit with something that could get everyone going for now, as opposed for waiting another two to three months. So I will take the hit on that one.

I now have the pre-production sample of the final remote and Scott and I fight over it every day. (I tell him I am still "testing" it.) I am told the new remotes are in production now. We are doing our best to get them completed before Chinese New Year. In any event it will not be long for the new ones to arrive.

Peter

Peter

Like an old married couple

Glad to hear that you a) made the decision to ship the thing and then upgrade to a better RC down the road b) are sorta obsessing on the details of the RC...

Got a the Apple TV sound working. Was an issue with the settings on the ATV.

All sources from HDMI, Opt, to Analog do not get real loud. This is the first system I can play at full volume and not have my wife screaming at me. Never had any other unit in the last 25 years that I could get close to max volume as it was always too loud for my ears.

I'll call Scott when I get back from trip overseas in a few weeks, but curious if this is an known issue with the pre-amp. As Patricks says, I am not the first one to complain about this on this fourm.

I can confirm the decreased output signal. Previous pre/pros all had room to spare but the 975 needs to be played at almost full output depending on material. It is plenty loud for everyday use. Our setup is 975 to Rotel branded ICEPower based digital amps playing through very accurate but relatively inefficient (just under 90dB rated) speakers.

I never did get the 975 to pass deep color from ps3... living without.
Our V3 apple TV is fine with 975.

Sonic performance is really quite good.

I do no miss "room correction" at all either.

Would have liked default surround mode by input and renameable inputs.

Same here. It seems dependent on the output level of the source device. No problem with the Comcast cable box or the Roku, but the Sony Blue Ray player sometimes makes me hit the volume level ceiling. All are connected with HDMI. At first I was wondering if you guys were assuming an amplifier with higher gain than the one I'm using (26db), but it looks like Outlaw amps are all at 28db of gain or less.

I can see that it was a difficult choice, but I gotta tell you that I think it was the wrong one. Or at least you went too cheap in the iPhone4-size temporary one. I can't imagine what happened that caused a remote to lag the rest of a complex product, but as first-time Outlaw owner you really dinged your reputation with me. I'm not looking for an explanation or an apology, I'd simply recommend that should a similar situation come up again you lean the other way.

I am sure it was not their first choice but rather than delay a product which was hugely anticipated they chose to give you two remotes. See if Sony, Marantz, Onkyo or Denon would have done it that way. As a first time owner you have yet to deal with Outlaws excellent service group so I can understand the feedback but Peter did apologize and take full responsibility for the decision. See if you can even get the others on the phone.

What if there were a way to "opt out" of the remote for a reduced fee.. say $75... then us Harmony etc users can just use the junk remotes or even codes (when available) to program our fancy pants controllers.

Delays are not unusual when sourcing stuff from overseas on a per-run basis.

blueone,

We didn't "choose" this remote. This is what the factory had available and programmed when we got our Beta samples. To find another "temporary" remote would have taken us nearly as long as to tool our own permanent remote.
So to have an imperfect temporary remote but have the 975 for the holidays for our customers was my decision. And to be honest, if I had to make the call again, it would be the same.

If we "dinged" our reputation with you on this complex product with that remote I am truly sorry I disappointed you. Our new remote can't get here fast enough for all of us. To say the least, it is tough making these decisions, I can only say that the positive reaction to the 975 has exceeded our expectations and we are now thinking about the supply.


Peter

"Other way" as in NOT release a new pre-pro that's ready to ship? In this day and age, considering the usage of universal remotes, I wouldn't hold up an entire product release for that one item. This may be a case of you and me just putting a different amount of importance on manufacturer included remotes.

Peter,

I would guess you are *very* anxious for the new remotes to come in. This situation must be a Class A headache. If you're comfortable with the decision and would do it again, that's fine. It's your business. The only real price you're going to pay for being "dinged" in my mind is that I'll be asking more questions and trusting that a product is ready for prime time a bit less before I'd order again.

The 975 is, overall, meeting my expectations at this price point. The maximum volume level limitation mentioned above is an annoyance sometimes, but not a fatal one for me, especially since we view DVDs and BDs less and less, and stream more and more, and the Roku seems to have sufficient voltage for the 975 to operate normally. Video and audio quality appear to be top notch. Set-up was a breeze. In general, nicely done.

Blueone, sorry to hear about issues with your blu-ray volume level through HDMI. Just wondering if you might try connecting to the 975 via optical/coaxial digital connection, though I understand it won't allow the HD surround modes to play through them I'm interested to see if it might output at a noticeably higher volume level.

I am very, very close to pulling-the-trigger on my 975/7125 combo to replace my flagging 1050 and though I am concerned a bit about total output volume especially since blu-ray, Dish, game systems, and HTPC are what it will be used for, I have always wanted to implement a pre/pro setup and the flexibility that entails. I am also sure that in the coming years if output becomes an issue I might be inclined to upgrade the amp substantially to take further advantage of this killer little processor.

On a side note, I have a cheap Sony turntable connected to my 1050 and when I got the TRON Legacy LP last year whenever I got to my average listening volume level, my speakers would severely begin clipping causing me to immediately turn the volume to nearly inaudible levels. Ideas? Might I be concerned of this happening with the 975?

The issue with various volume level dependent on the source is not generic to the 975. Both my Onkyo and the 990 output a lot more audio via BDP or CD than with my iPod connection or my turntable. Changing sources always causes me to change the volume somewhat. The Onkyo allows me to boost or cut the source volume which allows me to level them out if needed.

Differences between inputs is not the quibble.
It's that with "quieter" sources the lack of gain on the 975 is thrown into sharp relief. Resultant SPLs are less than any other pre/pro I have used, Outlaw 970 included. It is true that units that are more free of distortion, "cleaner" if you will can sound subjectively quieter compared to a unit that is clipping its analogue stage as gain levels increase... but that's not what's going on here.
Rest assured the 975 is plenty loud (we did not send ours back at the conclusion of our trial) but be prepared to need to play it at or near full volume on quieter sources if your speakers are on the less sensitive side; particularly if one has added any relative speaker "gain" (such as bringing the center channel up). That is all.

That's a bit annoying. I wonder if it's something that can be "tweaked" if/when they issue a firmware update. One of the benefits of separates is that ability to "go to 11" on the volume when the mood strikes you.

Best,

I don't understand the quibbles about the remote either - it was clearly noted to be shipping with a temporary remote with a permanent remote to come later. If the remote is a deal-breaker, one simply waits until the permanent device is available to order the 975. There is no issue here...

I noted that the 975 has a 90db range of sound which starts at -90 db and goes to 0 db. As noted before if you jack the signal to one speaker it decreases the available headroom by the amount of boost. I ran my Onkyo all the way down to -81.5 db and I am pretty sure it goes up to +18 db for an overall range of 100 db. Below about -50db the audio is essentially muted to my ears. At my midpoint -32db the audio is clearly discernable. Maybe it is possible to shift the midpoint on the 975 to increase the max output via a firmware update but it could be a hardware limitation based on output voltage.

I ran a test this weekend with the Digital Video Essentials disk and my system. According to the DVE docs the test tone should provide a SPL of 75 dB if the system is calibrated correctly.

With my 975 on max volume (0 dB) I read 71 dB at my listening position on the Radio Shack meter. My speakers have a senstivity of 87 dB. So it appears that with th volumen knob at 0 dB, which is unity gain, then the levels for HDMI appear close-for my system. I'll grant that it would be nice to have a little more gain for those with inefficient speakers or larger listening areas.

dB scale is logarithmic, 4dB is a significant difference.

Significant in what sense? It's a lot of power but a 4 dB difference in SPL only equates to a 1.32x difference in perceived loudness. A 10 dB difference in SPL is required for a 2x perceived difference.

Or to put it another way, if you are down 4dB from your target you are loosing approximately 24% of your sound level.

Correct.

Or if you're an optimist you'd still have 76% of your targeted level.

For me it's a moot point as I have never had to turn it up that loud for music or movies. I do understand why some people might want more though.

I'd be interested in what others who are having loudness issues would measure using the same setup...

Your 7075 amp has 28 dB gain, 1 dB less than "typical." Not a big deal, but as long as we're splitting hairs.

I did a survey a several calibration discs, and whereas most do hit 75 dB, for some reason the DVE DVD came out at 73 dB. So if we add 2 dB to your 71 dB readings, you'd really be getting 73 dB (from other sources).

We can get another cut on that hair... IIRC 29dB gain is the "THX Certified" target whereas many amps shoot a little lower in the 26-27dB range... seeking a goldilocks balance between power, loop feedback, distortion, and stability.

Just an update on my output level problem...

I am using the 975 in stereo mode. After talking with Scott the output level issue with the Sony Blueray player was solved by changing the Sony audio output mode from Dolby to PCM. In my testing on a DVD and a Blueray disc the volume level I was getting at 0db is now available at about -10db, which should give us sufficient headroom. On my system I consider the problem solved.

GREAT NEWS!

Honestly the nearly infinite number of setting that the different digital devices deliver to the rest of the audio chain is DIZZYING and the negative effects of how some output format buried three pages deep in poorly thought out menus is infuriating.

Just because HDMI has made "physical connection layer" harder to get wrong the various setup items that manufacturers have "baked in" are still far from "goof proof". I wonder how many installation done by "certified installers" have various settings delivering sub-optimal sound / video???

Hello Outlaws,

I've been reading the posts on the max volume control and thought I'd weigh in. I too have the limited volume experience. I moved from a Model 1070, which ran my surround speakers with the 1070 serving as a preamp to a 2 channel Conrad Johnson MF2200 amp for my mains. The CJ is 200w into 8 ohms. Speakers are Kef iQ90 which are matched at 8 ohms and max at 200w with 91dB sensitivity. The source is a HTPC.

The only change I made so far was to remove the 1070 and add the 975 into the system playing only the mains at the moment. I'll be adding a Model 7125 for my surrounds when it arrives. I am still using coax between the HTPC and the 975 as I did with the 1070. No other changes have been made. Channel calibration is set to 0 for both mains.

I have not yet measured the volume with an SPL meter, but the issue I have is that the music's perceived volume is not as loud as the 1070. The volume indicator is in the single digit dB range when listening to music at less than concert levels. Not much headroom.

Since the volume does not go beyond 0dB my question then is: what is my incentive for purchasing the Model 7125 (125w) versus the 7075 (75w), or continuing to use my CJ amp (200w)? If the volume control has a maximum then I cannot take advantage of the power output of a higher wattage amp. Am I missing something here?

Regardless of the volume control the music is crystal clear with great hi's and low low's. I also love the 975's size and simplicity.

^^ What are your music sources? Are they analog or digital connections? Seems it must be low if you are running in single digits. I'm usually at -20 to -30 for normal. Perhaps you just like it loud!

Re: power amps, usually the reason for buying a power amp with twice the wattage is not the extra 3 dB in peak loudness, but in the quality of the sound at all levels. The improved sense of authority and control, or refinement it imparts.

Seeing how you will use the 7 channel amp for surrounds only with the CJ for the mains, the 7075 will easily be sufficient power for that function. If you plan to upgrade in the future the 7125 will provide more headroom and control in a bigger system.

Thanks for the feedback. I got everything set up today and changed the source from coax to HDMI and calibrated the channels. With my 1070 all channels were within a point or two of zero db. With the 975 I have huge swings between channels. The front L is +9 and the front R is -10 when calibrated with the SPL meter. Any idea why the large discrepancy? Perhaps this is part of what's causing the low volume? This configuration also causes a loud hiss from the speakers.

ChiTown Hustler,

You are indeed getting strange results. Please call Scott on Monday and provide him with a detailed description of the exact set-up steps you took. Let's see if we can figure this out.

Peter

Thanks Peter, I'll give Scott a call Monday. I think I may have gotten a dud. Not only do my calibration numbers have wide swings as mentioned above, but when I exit the OSD and return to music the -10 channel is very low while the +9 channel is very loud. Whereas the SPL meter said the calibration dB between the two was equal. Also, all channels play all of the information received (source connected via HDMI). For example, the display shows front L & R + SW, but all seven speakers play.

I'm having some trouble too although with a cheap Insignia display. Initial startup can take as much as a minute. Switching between Comcast box & Blu-ray player can take 45 seconds at times. The 975 has crashed 3 times & needed to be power restarted. I am NOT blaming this on the 975 at this time. I rather suspect that it is a problem with my Insignia display. I am going to experiment with running the display analog component for awhile and see if I can learn anything. I really wish that I had a second HDMI display here for comparison.

Just to see if it affects connection time, try switching the Video Output Setup to Autoscale if it is currently Native. (Ref manual p.33)

You can help minimize handshakes buy "fixing" the resolution of each devive to match the display's native capability.
If it is a 720p display, set the cable box to 720, the bluray to 720 and the 975 to 720p. The same goes if it is a 1080p display.
This will at least prevent the display from relocking to every signal change.
Do not leave anything on AUTO.

Try that and see if it helps.

A quick update from my earlier posts regarding the low volume and channels with huge calibration swings. I received a new 975 today and after getting everything connected I calibrated all of the channels to within a point or two of zero. The volume issue I was having must have been connected to that problem somehow as I now have lots of overhead on the volume dial. It sounds amazing and I couldn't be happier. Thanks Scott!

Man I am impressed -- the turn-around time is superior to service I get with enterprise IT that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars! Peter: How about you buy out Dell?

Ha- you should have made your suggestion a few weeks ago. But, perhaps there's an opportunity for Peter to come to Austin and do a customer service seminar at Dell

Call it "How not to be a Douche!"

Well I think you know I was sorta "joshing" as the Dell buyout was like a $24BILLION dollar announcement. And to be fair the Dell HW that my firm is having fits with is many years past its primary "full production" function but still a vital part of our development environment. Dell mostly does provide great service on new stuff and still helps us limp along as long we pay for extend support.

Funny thing too is that there are some analogies to the 975 product offering. See, back when my firm acquired this particular Dell HW and it was shiny new it was not real clear if the product offered more value than specialized units from other suppliers but it seemed awfully promising. The situation now is that we have a fancy "supposed to do everything" device that is kinda of limping along and gradually coming a giant costly decision point. I equate this to sorta maybe buying a used "does everything" kind of pre-pro like maybe an Integra 80.3 that cost, even used at a good discount, probably as much three or four 975s.

Part of me wants the "slices / dices / auto-eqs / internet connected / app friendly / wiz bang" of even a used pre-pro and another part of knows that WHEN something goes wrong no Integra dealer will even listen to my voice mail after they get to the "I bought it used" part.

Ideas? (feel free to PM too)

I had been tossing around several different a/v receivers such as the Onkyo tx-nr717 and nr-818 as their "specs" are similar to the 975/7125 combo I'll be getting soon. They too have tons of wiz-bang features that grabbed my attention, with TONS of HDMI options, yet even though I would be saving money with these vs. The Outlaw setup it was my wife that still brought me back to the Outlaw system. She said where was I going to get the same level of customer support and quality for my money, and that I had always bugged her about getting separates and this was my best chance for some time to come.

Agreed!! Now that you have the amp, upgrading is much easier down the road.

Well, renov8r, sometimes our companies need the latest and greatest, and sometimes the basics with accompanying easy of support, both internally and externally from suppliers. Your situation is probably either of those two regarding your Dell HW requirement.
As for your home electronics, I'd stick with Outlaw.

Pretty disappointed with this purchase of the 975. Will probably just hook my old 950 back up and buy the Emotiva or something else. Yes, I finally got it set up with using a high end HDMI to DVI cable and plugging the DVI end to my computer monitor. But there is absolutely no sound what so ever coming in thru the HDMI cables. So I cannot use the Dolby True HD or DTS Masters features on Blue-Ray disc. Cannot even use my superior OPPO decoding since there are no 7.1 input connections. Have been a long time Outlaw fan and consumer, but this unit is poor.

Well that stinks. Sorry to hear your unit doesn't seem to be working, Plonker. Did you give the Outlaws a call and see if they could help you troubleshoot it? Their support is usually top notch if you let them know there's a problem.

I assume the setup involved designating the HDMI ports for the equipment you have installed. I would recheck that and caqll Outlaw Monday AM.

Sure there is, but it's not coming through your DVI cable. You'll have the exact same problem with the Emotiva's HDMI output.

Plonker, please call customer service @ 1-866-Outlaws, after all of your posts, and suggestions from the community, it seems that the logical next step would be that you would speak to us directly.

Back in January, I posted that I was experiencing crashes. I just want to update this and say that I have now gone for over three months without a problem. I didn't really do anything, things just settled down.

I am very happy now with this unit but I will make two observations that might seem to be nit-picking.

1. The volume control really does feel poor. That doesn't bother me because I almost always use the remote but it is a big step down from the nice feel of my old 950.

2. The gain is lower than my old 950. I don't have a problem with this as I have fairly efficient loudspeakers but I would have difficulty achieving 0 = 85 dB calibration if I had less efficient speakers. As many do 0 = 75, I guess this really isn't a problem for most people.

Any word on a firmware upgrade yet?

What would the firmware update accomplish? I have not heard any rumors but we should start suggesting what should be fixed.

How about this item that RussB posted in the "Unlock" thread:

I have only heard of one person with this issue. If it is a common issue with the 975, then I agree they should fix it if possible. Maybe adding some sort of time requirement for the unlock to occur would fix it.

I've been able to play around with the 975 for a few days now and am ready to give some feedback.
Current setup is a Panasonic TC-P65GT50 (I have an inclination for plasma), Axiom Epic Grandmaster to make waves (In/On Wall M-22/VP150, QS8, and EP500 sub), along with an Axiom ADA-1000 (5 channel) to provide the juice.
I've had the speakers for several years, the ADA-1000 is a relatively recent purchase (it took the place of a Denon 3808CI).

Let's start with the positives. I like the look and it's slim (freed up some needed space). It provides tremendous clarity. Before, I used Audyessy with the Denon. I don't miss it. It runs relatively cool and the 975s input/outputs happen to match up quite nicely with my needs. The price is very reasonable and it appears that Outlaw (much like Axiom) has good customer service (this is my first Outlaw product).

Ok, now my negatives. None of these are real killers since the unit hasn't quit and all functions work. These are items that I didn't expect but I believe can be rectified. Kinda like going to pick up your new Vette and finding out that it's got some scratches on it and the check engine light is on. Everything still works, it's just a bit disappointing.

First on the list is lack of front panel dimming. I had to put a piece of tape over the power button. It is definitely too bright.

Second up is the remote. Seems like all the primary functions of the unit are secondary on the remote. This is not atypical and probably due to the amount of text needed. The better remotes I've used are more focused (bigger buttons, fewer functions). You definitely have to aim this guy as well (always a good reason for RF/Bluetooth).

Third up is the OSD. She don't look so hot compared to what was out 5 years ago. But that's no biggie, it just makes you want to set things and not come back. I'm happy at least that it did have an OSD. As you get older and grumpier walking over to the rack and looking at a little screen while punching a button just plain sucks (DAMMIT! Just missed that setting and now have to cycle through the whole damn thing!).
This leads up to another thing, why in the world (under Video Settings) do I have to hit the button on the remote 2 or 3 times to get a parameter to move one increment? If you take Brightness from 60-50 you have to hit the button 25 times. Shouldn't I just be able to hold the button? Weird.

This unit has some minorly annoying performance deficeits. When I powered up the unit on day 2, there was zero subwoofer output (all other audio/video good). Turned it off, checked all connections.....still nothing. Changed sources as well with no luck. Did a hard reset and all was good. A little later, when switching sources (all are HDMI) I lost all audio (picture fine). Again, went through the other sources (didn't help) then every component powered down and connections checked with no luck on the re-power. Another hard reset and I'm back in business. Later, while switching sources again, the screen flakes out and goes a speckly red,green,blue. I only had to power cycle the 975 this time. This happened once more during the day but hasn't in the last 36 hours. Dunno. It's like I'm back using Windows 95. It's a new experience to have "buggy" audio gear. I'll end the negatives with a seemingly common complaint. I wasn't expecting the volume to max out at 0dB. After doing the initial SPL check at 75db (speaker trims all 0 in front, -2 to the back, -6 on the sub), I tossed in the Avengers Blu-Ray and was surprised when I hit the upper limit. Not a big deal, just went in and added 6dB to all trim levels and that got me back to the volume levels I'm used to (roughly 103-108dB peaks during movies only).

To those that have made it this far, DON'T be put off by my comments. I like the 975, the sound it provides (which is one of its primary goals) is exceptional. It does a fine job of upscaling video (video is just fine overall). The only thing that I'm not used to is how long it takes to switch HDMI sources. The Denon I used (and still have) did a great job with that (fast and seamless). The 975 just takes about 5 seconds (compared to less than 2 with the Denon) and.....UPDATE!! Just as I switched sources to verify that switching time she went all goofy (speckly red,green, blue). Turned it off and right back on and all is good!....back to it...the only other "tip" I can give is that Outlaw may want to update their manual for the Video Settings. If you are using upscaling, the factory Video Settings (60,30,50,51,10) for Brightness, Contrast, etc. seem to be neutral (like a pass through) although still effective when adjusted from the stock spots. If you knock 'em down to zero you'll wonder why your picture went away.

I do like this unit sonically...just hope we can get some bugs ironed out.

Good write up, Dan.

I noticed that same oddity in the remote but I only used it long enough to teach my universal the command set so it wasn't anything I paid much attention.

The OSD kinda reminds me of the VCR OSD we had back in the 90's. Perfectly functional just very simple. I don't mind it but since this is the first pre-amp I've had (upgraded from Outlaw's 1050 receiver) I don't have any basis for comparison. I have no idea what options are out there for OSD.

The front panel brightness and power light don't bug me at all. I like being able to see them when I look for it. However, this may either be a personal preference or due to the fact that the 975 is physically positioned low enough the coffee table obscures it when seated on the couch.

I've had a couple of flashes of color you describe when switching HDMI sources, but my sources always kick in so it may just be some weirdness with your sources and the 975 handshaking. For example, our first generation ROKU box wouldn't ever synch up with the 975. This wasn't a big deal for us as there were plans to move that one to the bedroom and drop in the second gen unit at some point, I just wasn't planning to do it on initial set up. The box works great with our TV, just won't connect to the 975. My guess is that it may have something to do with the age and the HDMI specs when it was built but I really don't have enough experience with HDMI to say. Have you noticed if it's a particular source that drops out on you or is it random?

Like you, we love the way the 975 sounds and finally being able to use HDMI inputs and get the full lossless soundtracks has been fantastic.

That lossless audio is the best thing about Blu-ray. I'm replacing my DVDs for that reason alone.
As far as one particular source triggering the HDMI failure, it has happened when switching to any of my 3 inputs (dumb luck with only 3-4 occurrences). The source equipment is fairly current and I've never experienced a problem before.
The HDMI issue is the only true letdown. But it only happens during a switch and the unit power cycles pretty fast (much faster than the 'ol Denon).

UPDATE - HDMI Switching:

After playing around with switching sources and entering/exiting the OSD I can only say this:
The issue I'm having is pretty random (but not too frequent). Most of the time the picture flakes out while audio is still present. Most of the time the unit will recover if I switch between sources a couple times, otherwise a power cycle of the unit takes care of it. My HDMI sources are all pretty current (TV < 1 year old, HDTV < 1 year (NVIDIA card), oldest is PS3 at about 2 years old). But I've never had any issues before. This unit just seems to struggle a bit making the connection (usually audio comes on a bit after the video). Nevertheless, once a connection is made all is good. This 975 plus my Axiom ADA-1000 does a damn fine job of rocking the house. I'd have to call the 975 a bit "quirky" but still wholly satisfactory.

That could be the contact pins on the HDMI cables or jacks. Unplugging and reconnecting them once or twice may help to refresh the surface contacts.

Outlaw customer service was excellent in responding the problem and followed-up more than once to make sure everything worked. Nancy made several personal calls to make sure. I have been an Outlaw customer on many products since 1998 and am always pleased with the quality! Thanks

Hello again. It has now been a month (I made the intolerably long post on the previous page some time ago) and I'm happy to report that the 975 has been performing quite well. I've had zero problems with the audio output and the only niggling performance issue I have is with the HDMI. It definitely is slow to switch (compared to Denon at least) and very occasionally I'll get the "screen of sparkly color" (it is NOT cabling, replaced all of it with no improvement). I've not had to turn off or reset the unit to clear it, only switch sources. Interestingly enough, the HDMI seems most sensitive to my HTPC (newer NVIDIA card equipped). The 975 will drop the whole picture for second sometimes when switching GUI windows/desktops or starting video programs (VLC, Netflix, YouTube, etc.). It's not consistent and again, just happens now-and-then. And just for my baseline... all the same equipment performed flawlessly with my previous AVRs.

On to the most positive side, audio. The 975 revealed that my recently purchased Axiom ADA-1000 (5 channel) is too weak. Sound is so amazingly clear at high volume that, before you realize it, you run the ADA-1000 into protection mode. So I have an ADA-1250 on the way. Stunning clarity with this combination. And that makes up for everything else.

Hello all, I have waited the mandatory 30 days to give my impressions after purchasing the 975 and a 2200 amp. I had lightning struck about 45 days ago, and took out messed up my old JBL Performance copy of the Lexicon RV 4 digital processor. It was very old anyway, and I wanted new processor for HDMI HD audio. Currently I am running the 2200 amp to my center channel, and have an old Adcom 4 channel running the rest at 60 WPC. Love the 2200, really brought the center to life.
All speakers are B&W. I plan on future Outlaw amp purchases for the other 4 channels.
To the 975: I m very pleased with it, and feel the sound is very good and an improvement over what I had, which sounded pretty good. I have only run it 5.1 and have not tried the stereo mode yet. I mainly use the system for a collection of over 250 concert DVD's and Blu-Rays. I use a Pioneer 300 DVD player, and a Sony S790 for Blu Ray, Netflix and Vudu. I spent a lot of time comparing Blu Ray movies and concerts in both the HD audio connection modes ( Dolby and DTS True HD or master audio) via HDMI against the sound via the optical connection. On most discs, I could not tell the difference, but maybe I could have if I had run a 7 channel set up.

Also, I did not experience any "maximum volume is too low issues", or HDMI handshake issues, onece you give it time to make the handshake. You can't see the primary function labels on the remote keys in the dark or low light, but I use a simple universal programable remote, to run all my components anyway, and that helps a lot. I like the features on the remote where you can adjust speaker levels while watching a video, w/o having to go into the system menu. I use it all the time to adjust the center channel as it can vary a lot from recording to recording.

Like a lot of people have mentioned in this thread, the on screen display is not my favorite, would love to have the decoding being used (Dolby Digital, DTS, etc) for what is shown on the display after the scroll, rather than video source. Would also love to have that display go dark after 10 seconds.

Over all, for the money, a great buy for the money,and excellent sound, and simple operation. I am sure it will sound even better once I get set up with all Outlaw amps. I find that with B&W 805 speakers, they do their best with at least 200 WPC. My problem is that for now, I don't want to deal with the weight of an 80 lb 5x200 amp, so I'll like get another 2 2200's and figure out some thing else for surround channels.

Overall, I am really enjoying the 975 and the 2200 amp and feel that Outlaw is the best deal in the market.


I

I am trying to hook 3 computers up to the 975 via HDMI . The first is a 3 year old AMD with a Radeon 5450 video out which goes to HDMI input 1 on the 975 . I don't get any sound . I am running Windows 7 Pro with all updates . The bios on my AMD is also current and set to HDMI as default. When i do Control panel> Device manager i don't see 975 as a device under the sound category. I just want to do straight 7 channel stereo. When I try to do Mode select to 7 channel the display says "Unavailble ". There is also a Creative sound blaster card ( PCI-E ) hooked up. All the drivers for that are current. The AMD computer sees my montior as a 975 device.

My second computer is a Intel NUC with a Skylake I5 processor and 16 gig memory with Intel Graphics and windows 10 with all updates. It recognizes 975 as a sound device and I have set that to default I can play music from computer files and the sounds shows up on all channels but still can't select 7 channel stereo. I can only configure it as 2 channel stereo. I don't have a sub woofer hooked up but that coud be done.

My third computer is a desktop with the same proceesor as my second one which I haven't started up yet with the 975. I didn't want to start that until I resolved these current problems.It also has Inter on board graphics.

The 4th HDMI input will be my trusty OPPO 83 dvd player which I don't expect any trouble with.

Basic question is how to get 7 channel stereo for each computer .

Thanks

David ( deeb )
I use seperate amps for each stereo channel channel .

My default monitor is a 50 inch Panasonic plasma tv. The output of 975 goes into HDMI #1 input on tv which does ARC.

update.. I tried 3rd computer ( Win 7 pro skylake I5 processor) and 975 was recognized as sound device. Also planning to dual boot this computer with Linux Mint 18.2 as an alternate operating system. Now just have to try hoking up a sub and OPPO 83 to 4th HDMI input.

Hi David,

Please email us at customerservice@outlawaudio.com with some more information so we can be of further assistance. Please include what you see on the Model 975's front panel display for both letters and boxes on the right side of the display when playing audio. Also, are you outputting PCM or bitstream, and if bitstream, how is the audio encoded.

I concur on the volume issue. I find the 975 doesn't have the output of a Rotel* or an HK pure analogue processor
* no HDMI
Since tri-amping**my LCR, I'm satisfied. My XOs provide up to 10dB of gain.
** no passive filtering! Each driver has its own channel
Also for Surrounds to be Large, LR must be Large, something I hope the 976 does not have.

All that aside, the 975 is my preferred prepro - it runs circles around a 10 year old, when new, $1600 Rotel in SQ & tweak-a-bility*. I look forward to the 976. It will circles around the 975*.

Glad to hear you are enjoying the sound quality of the Model 975! Don't forget there is a difference between gain and what the unit is actually capable of outputting in terms of pre-out voltage. The output capability of the Model 975 is great - up to 2.7V.

In terms of gain, we could definitely go up with the Model 975 but noise floor would increase. For example, people with efficient speakers, and processors with more gain, can be forced into using attenuators at the pre-outs to cut down on noise floor.

I try and explain how it is a conscious decision we made, and that really is a balancing act between gain and noise floor. Unfortunately, I've run into situations where people simply don't believe this. Personally, I'd lean towards lower noise floor but everyone has their preference.

The only "noise" I hafta deal w/besides frequent "Dad, turn it down..." is a low, unchanging volume level ground loop/buzz. I hear it only when I connect the DirecTV coax or HDMI. I've checked most of the house's outlets w/a "checker gizmo" from Lowe's - all good so far

I think it's a breaker panel ground issue as the coax is grounded outside to the house ground. I'm waiting for "Dad please fix the noise..." and Mom takes the kids to pool. Then I'll get busy w/my DMM.

Maybe this ground loop isolator will help...

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/33...66-MaAq0W8P8HAQ

The ground loop is likely due to a difference in the ground plane between your system and the Directv system. Try attaching a wire from the chassis of the Directv receiver to your 975 chassis. The coax from your satellite dish should have a ground wire which is attached to the ground at some point. If this ground is not the same as the one for your house a small voltage can be set up which makes the hum.

I "turned it* waaay down" by doin' what the DTV install tech said not to:
routing the DTV through my APC H15.
* the noise

I also have a 975, and had a similar problem that was immensely frustrating. I tried a number of things, mostly focused on AC power and connections between the equipment. A ground loop isolator for the coax cable like the one above completely solved the problem - I highly recommend one, whether or not other solutions lessen the problem.

My apologies for de-railing this thread. Every coax isolation transformer I've seen advises against using w/sat TV. I plan to FIND the source of the problem - I know its in no way reflects on the 975 quality.

No worries. XenonMan is spot on; this is usually a difference in ground potential, and if you want to avoid an isolator, then you would want to:
If you have some thick speaker wire laying around, you can back off a chassis screw from each unit, wrap the speaker wire around it, and then tighten the chassis screws back down.

I have lived in several homes/townhomes where the ground difference was 6 mv or more and it is always the first thing I check. In my current house I had an issue and using a coax isolator did not solve the problem. I ended up using a 3 pin to 2 pin AC adapter on the AC for the TV. After unplugging and re-pluging each attached device, it was the Hitachi Plasma that made the difference. Since both cable and internet are coming on the same cable and I had a HTPC attached to the TV directly, I suspect I was getting a ground loop via the PC and its network attachment back through to the cable system.