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#91176 - 07/30/12 12:44 PM Re: Who Did It? [Re: Ritz2]
Kevin C Brown Offline
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Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 1054
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
Originally Posted By: Ritz2
Even the 978 is already outclassed in terms of features by budget AVRs available today.


"Features" isn't the same as good sound quality.
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#91178 - 07/30/12 01:07 PM Re: Who Did It? [Re: Kevin C Brown]
Ritz2 Offline
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Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 414
Loc: Virginia
Perhaps you might want to focus on the "made it to production" and "is available for sale" parts and THEN discuss "sound quality". Outside of the Outlaws themselves and a few beta testers, nobody knows what the sound quality of the 978 was like and we'll never know now.

If/when this new processor hits the streets and it can be reviewed, then we'll find out if the sound quality is going to be better/worse or the same as that of other widely available AVRs in the "budget" segment.

Best,
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#91182 - 07/31/12 07:44 AM Re: Who Did It? [Re: Ritz2]
gonk Offline
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Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
I read Kevin's post as saying that he is interested in budget AVRs because of their sound quality.
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#91185 - 07/31/12 10:01 AM Re: Who Did It? [Re: gonk]
Ritz2 Offline
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Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 414
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: gonk
I read Kevin's post as saying that he is interested in budget AVRs because of their sound quality.


Maybe Kevin can clarify. I think it's unlikely that there will be significant variations in sound quality for inexpensive consumer gear and that most folks shopping in that category will base their decisions on features/brand. The trend towards higher quality audio at lower and lower price points continues. Onkyo is being extremely aggressive on pricing and the feature sets on units from the bigger names are pretty amazing, given the cost.

Best,


Edited by Ritz2 (07/31/12 11:13 AM)
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#91188 - 07/31/12 11:32 AM Re: Who Did It? [Re: Ritz2]
gonk Offline
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Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
If we focus solely on the inexpensive consumer gear, I think you're right that sound quality variations will probably be modest. On the other hand, that modest variation will hover around a baseline that does allow room for improvement. I think many of us around here are part of the Outlaw family because we are interested in exploring that room for improvement.
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#91190 - 07/31/12 01:03 PM Re: Who Did It? [Re: gonk]
Kevin C Brown Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 1054
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
^^^

What Gonk said. smile

My point was, stuffing a bunch of features into a budget AVR isn't going to guarantee the same or even similar sound quality that I would have expected with the 978 and its analog output stage. "Features" and "sound quality" are not the same.

I had a 950, and I am very familiar with Outlaw's other SSP's. I have also had a budget AVR or two in my lifetime. I most certainly got more enjoyment out of the 950.
_________________________
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ... New and Improved !!


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#91192 - 07/31/12 02:31 PM Re: Who Did It? [Re: Kevin C Brown]
bobm Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 09/04/04
Posts: 146
Originally Posted By: Kevin C Brown
^^^
I had a 950, and I am very familiar with Outlaw's other SSP's. I have also had a budget AVR or two in my lifetime. I most certainly got more enjoyment out of the 950.


I replaced my 950 with a budget AVR and the sound quality seems the same to me. I listen in 2 channel mostly and I think Yamaha nailed that years ago. I still like the idea of purchasing Outlaw gear for the support, both from Outlaw and the community here. If Outlaw comes out with a budget pre/pro that is well reviewed I will certainly order one.

One thing that bothers me is the designer of year that is built into the Outlaw business model. Need a product find a designer. It would seem to me that the larger brands; Yam, Onk,… would have an advantage of consistency working with the same team and manufacturing facility. Perhaps they swap around as well I don’t know?

-Bob

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#91194 - 07/31/12 03:35 PM Re: Who Did It? [Re: bobm]
Ritz2 Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 414
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: bobm
Originally Posted By: Kevin C Brown
^^^
I had a 950, and I am very familiar with Outlaw's other SSP's. I have also had a budget AVR or two in my lifetime. I most certainly got more enjoyment out of the 950.


I replaced my 950 with a budget AVR and the sound quality seems the same to me. I listen in 2 channel mostly and I think Yamaha nailed that years ago. I still like the idea of purchasing Outlaw gear for the support, both from Outlaw and the community here. If Outlaw comes out with a budget pre/pro that is well reviewed I will certainly order one.

One thing that bothers me is the designer of year that is built into the Outlaw business model. Need a product find a designer. It would seem to me that the larger brands; Yam, Onk,… would have an advantage of consistency working with the same team and manufacturing facility. Perhaps they swap around as well I don’t know?

-Bob


I went from a 990+755 to a budget Denon AVR-1912. I don't perceive a difference in audio source quality. However, the amplification is clearly not as beefy as my old Outlaw 755 and that IS noticeable.

I'm reasonably confident that if I used an $800 Onkyo AVR's pre-outs to the same Outlaw amplifier, I'd likely be unable to tell the difference between that and the 990 in a blind test. And now that Audyssey MultEQ XT32 is available in units for well under a grand, that's pretty intriguing as well.

Best,
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#91195 - 07/31/12 05:13 PM Re: Who Did It? [Re: Ritz2]
Kevin C Brown Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 1054
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
I'm glad that you two can be happy with a budget AVR. That's not how I feel however.
_________________________
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ... New and Improved !!


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#91196 - 07/31/12 07:43 PM Re: Who Did It? [Re: Kevin C Brown]
S. Sharkey Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/15/12
Posts: 78
Loc: Canada
I've had budget Denon and Onkyo AVRS. Both were inferior in sound quality to my current Onkyo 876. And the 7125 was a step up in sound quality when I added it to the 876. But I think you can get to a point of diminishing returns certainly.
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