I need some suggestions on a receiver for a family member. He is buying equipment for his living room. At this time he is not going to have a full surround sound, only 3 speakers and a sub. I have recommended Ascend Acoustics CBM-170s for the mains and center and an HSU or Outlaw sub. I need some suggestions for a receiver in the $500-$700 range. If there is one that is more expensive, but such a stand out for the money, it would considered, I'm sure.
Ascend sells HK receivers on their site as an authorized dealer. They state that they have had very good results from these. I have noticed that, for the money, the wattage per channel is much lower on the HK than say a Yamaha or Denon of equal price. Are you paying for the "HK" on the receiver or would a lower wattage HK sound much better than a comparably price Yamaha or Denon?

Yamaha, Denon, Sony, etc. have a way of being a little liberal with their wattage ratings. The HK's will deliver their stated wattage and more with all channels driven at the same time, where other receiver manufacturers measure theirs with only two channels driven. My Yamaha HTR-5790 says 110 watts x 7, but with all channels driven at the same time it's probably putting out about 35-40 watts per channel. It's still a good bang for the buck receiver. Another one that is getting lots of press at the moment is the Pioneer 1014. It's basically an Elite 52TX with a few less features. One thing your relative needs to consider is how fast technology moves. Most brands release new models every year, so he may not want to spend that much with only a 3.1 setup. Why pay $700 for a receiver when you are only using about a buck fifty of the features? By a cheaper, used 5.1 receiver and put the rest into other areas until they are ready to make the jump to a full setup. Just some things to consider and my 2 cents. If, however, they're going to go 5.1 within a year, go ahead and get a new receiver.

Well I disagree that Denon overrates their power ratings, though Yamaha and Sony do.

HK makes good components though they are overpriced for their performance/features usually.

I agree that if he plans to upgrade soon, then he should go for a lower priced receiver to start with. At least that way he can compare its sound to his new more expensive processor/receiver/amp when he gets it...

I think that Denon packs their products with about as many features as possible and is a good value also. I guess you could get a 2805 for that price range.

while i'll say that denon makes decent products,HK are slightly overpriced,under rated on power,but have high current output,and can drive difficult speakers easier than sony or yamaha(although nothing wrong with yamaha or sony when you get to their higher end receivers)

your best bet,and i'm really surprised you fellow outlaws haven't recommended it,is keep an eye on ebay and pick up a used 1050,they have pretty much held their value,so expect to pay $4-5 hundred plus shipping.

they are awesome for entry level 5.1 theater(6.1)
have awesome 2 channel sound for music,and have pre-outs for all channels for system growth down the road,you can't go wrong.with this forum you can get all the support you would ever need.

That's the reason you will not see mine on e-bay

Me too! But it doesn't hurt to keep an eye out. Check Audiogon, too.

I'll eventually upgrade to full separates from my 1050, but the trusty old 1050 will probably go (along with the then "old" speakers) to one of my daughters... or the bedroom.

He wants to buy new. Upgrades are possible within a year. Any standout receivers out there for descent money? He has a Pioneer Elite DVD 45A so the Pioneer is an option. What's the price on it? Anybody had any experience with it?
Also, any thoughts on the HSU vs. Outlaw sub?

I don't know about receivers in that price range - may do some research into it at some point for a co-worker, but currently I can't offer much. I know I liked my Yamaha receiver many years ago, but that doesn't necessarily reflect on the current generation of their products. As for HSU and Outlaw subs, the LFM-1 was designed in partnership with Dr. Hsu so the two are going to be very similar. I happen to really like my LFM-1.

I have a Yamaha RX-V630 (I think that's the right model) that I bought a couple of years ago and have been satisfied with it, though I don't have much to compare it to. I have not had any problems out of it anyway. I am in the same boat, I have not had any experience with their newer products either.

you dont want a pioneer, maybe a pioneer elite. with the stress on maybe.

the 1050 is old, so its a good thing he doesnt want a used receiver.

it sounds like to me that he is asking the wrong person to help him put this system together if you dont know what is what... (sorry to throw that in, but it was something funny that I observed...)

Be nice, curegeorg. He posted here asking for information, not grief, and he has clearly been doing some research on his own.

my bad, I should have put a smiley face at the end... ?

I came across something that might be relevent to your search, Cargo. It seems that the HK AVR-635 has a software bug that could be a major headache, particularly for anybody using a 6.1 or 7.1 speaker setup or trying to use Logic7. The way the unit recognized Dolby flags causes it to always switch back to straight Dolby Digital - so if you want to use Pro Logic IIx to get surround back channels running or you prefer to use Logic7 all the time, you have to manually select it each time the signal resets (which includes changes in the signal format for commercials on some HD channels, changing channels on satellite or digital cable, and even pausing and re-starting DVD's). HK is working on a software fix for the 635, but there's nothing available yet that I could find. There's a lengthy thread at AVS about this issue and the 635, but it doesn't say if other units in HK's current line (which presumably share at least some software) are also affected.

I don't think digital recievers was mentioned. So I'll add that the Panasonic digital recievers seem to be a very good bang for the buck. The XR50 or XR70. The most celebrated Pansonic digital seems to be the XR45, which is hard to find now. Also the JVC digital lineup is getting good reviews. The RX-F10. Most of these recievers are quite inexpensive. I auditioned the Pansonic XR-25 while my Outlaw 1050 was in for repair. I was quite amazed at how well it compared to my 1050.
Try this link for more info on these digital amps.
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewforum.php?f=43

Thanks for the info. I think that the HK's have been ruled out. He likes the Pioneer and it seems to be in the lead, but the Denon is still under consideration. I will check out the Panasonic receivers. Thanks for the link.

Just wait for the 1070.......you know it's coming!

i would not recommend a digital amplified receiver. i have not heard any that was worth over a $1.50. they just have not mastered the ability to amplify (like a power amp does) in the digital domain yet. digital receivers are weak and distort bigtime at moderately high levels...

pioneer is an OK brand, not much more than Sony and the likes though. pioneer elite is a step up, but at a premium on price...

If the 1070 comes out by the middle to end of May that would be the ticket.
Curegeorg- you seem to feel strongly about the denon receivers from what I have read in some of your previous posts. In one you mentioned that the Denon's DAC's are better than the Pioneer Elite's. Do you know what DAC's are used in each? I have a Denon DVD-2900 that I have been pleased with. It has Burr Browns. I had a noticable improvement in sound when I upgraded to this unit and picture too, of course.

i would have to kinda agree with curegeorg(oh no! )
unless you want to go sony es or pioneer elite,stay away!check the specs on MOST budget oriented receivers(100x6 @ 1KHZ W/1%THD @ 6 OHMS)(example only) those are crappy numbers!that's with a test tone ,6 ohm load and a LOT of distortion.hook up speakers with the ever changing load at different frequencies and you maybe average 40-50 real world watts(and i'm probably being generous)and the freq. range is probably 40-20000hz,that means that killer sub you buy that goes down to 19hz doesn't have that signal.(i keep saying you, although i know you are helping family)
just keep researching,go to crutchfield.com to get ideas and prices ranges,you can download owner's manuals and get a better handle on the products in your price range.
if you don't wanna wait for a 1070,then go for something like integra(upper end onkyo),sherwood,rotel,even denon.i've heard alot of good things about these brands(but denon did get a big slam going up against sony es on a buddy's demo when he bought def-techs,denon couldn't cut it,and i couldn't tell you the model #)

ok i clicked on the link MCH gave you ,went to j&r(i assume music world) clicked on the first "decent" panasonic i saw :
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3964406

look at the specs!!!be careful.don't let the prices get you excited!

Well, you will have to be specific about which models you wanted compared for you. Each model will not have the same dacs. As for the 2805:
"16 Analog Devices, 24 bit, 192 kHz high resolution DACs on all eight channels, in differential configuration". Some more research could reveal the specific model of DAC, but unfortunately for you, I am not a personal shopper.

I was probably referring to the 3805s DACs or 5803/5805s DACs. In which case, those models do employ Burr Brown (i.e. Texas Instruments) brand digital-to-analog converters. However, I was not referring to the specific brand as much as Denon's use of 16 DACs (in differential config) instead of Pioneer's 8 DACs. Though Burr Brown are typically some of the better chips...

Man, there are a lot of reasons why one receiver is better than another. You would need to tell me two specific models which you are considering, then I could pro/con them both against each other.

I am not by any means saying that Denon is the best audio company out there, because they are not, or that they will give you the best sound available, because they will not, but for the money they are a good value usually... They pack a lot of features into their units, have high quality components, and hold up well. The only knock I ever hear against them is their amplification is a little overrated... That is kind of weird to me, because what can you realistically expect from a receiver? I have never heard any receiver that amplified as well as seperates... Some are very good and some suck. I would say that Denon's amplification is very good, though there are better.

For me, I use the Denon 3805 (which had all of the bells and whistles that I needed at a good price) and use its amplification for different zones, while using seperate amps for the main listening area. I do this mostly because I already had the amps, so no need to waste them or sell them in case I go seperates again... I tried the Denon 3805 amping the main room and it was very good at listening levels, I would even go as far to say that I would be happy with it. I just like the ability to go louder than the receiver could go when listening to certain media. Though I would say abnormally loud :-).

if you are wondering how to compare amplification specs:

here is a good way to rate:
8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, <.05%THD

This example is saying an 8ohm load while playing a signal which represents the spectrum of 20Hz-20kHz producing .05% distortion.

here is a not so good way to rate:
8 ohms, 1 kHz, <.05%THD

This example has the same load and same distortion, but only at a test tone of 1kHz. These amps are FAR from being equal. Who knows what distortion is experienced away from that 1kHz tone, obviously a lot or it would have been rated the other way...

I'm new to posting but I thought I had some Info that might help. I have the following receivers,outlaw 1050,NAD 752,h/k525,Sony 2000es and the Pioneer 1014.The best of the bunch is the pioneer. while i love my outlaw it is dated in the areas of connetions and surround modes.The nad is great with music and good with movies it s only has to have outboard amps to be 7.1.The H/k is a great receiver is very good all around but lacks the pioneer and outlaws dynamics. The sony is the only one that i can not recommend as it is only ok for movies and poor with music. The pioneer 1014 is the elite 52tx without the rs232 and the multiroom output.it sounds great with music and movies and has most hookups any needs now.I am not what you would call a die hard pioneer fan but this receiver aginst these other solid receivers in my opionion comes out on top

Thanks for the comparison.