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#82603 - 03/02/10 05:35 PM Very sad situation here
Robert Holloway Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 41
Loc: SF Cal
I purchased a 990 and the 7700 about 4 years ago

I've waited for about 2 years for the upgrade to the 997

The 990 broke down last year and I had to literally throw it in the garbage and revert to my old Sony ES 9000 pre.

I bought an awesome HDMI switcher (4inputs / 2 outputs) from Monoprice for $67 and it transmits perfect 1080p from blu ray, DVR, PS3 and my Mac Pro to my Sony Pearl projector and onto a 120" screen. But it's a pain with audio and video on different boxes. My girlfriend hates this set up.

I had hoped for a 997 but the reality is that in the world of Consumer electronics delays like this are fatal. I wanted Dolby and DTS MA and HDMI switching integrated.

Sad to say that I will buy a Japanese receiver (Denon) and use it as a preamp for DTS MA and HDMI switching. Amplification will remain with 3 Naim 135's monos driving the front and the Outlaw on the back 2 channels.

I write this with 100% sadness and no malice. I was such a fan frown

Sorry
Rob



Edited by Robert Holloway (03/02/10 05:45 PM)
_________________________
Sony Pearl projector
120" 16x9 DaLite Hi Power screen
Outlaw 990 (gone) & 7700
3 Naim 135 amps
Sony Blu Ray
Mac Pro
Sony PS3
3 B&W full range spkrs
4 Kef full range spkrs
2 REL Stentor sub bass units :-)

Top
#82605 - 03/02/10 06:26 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: Robert Holloway]
petemc Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 21
Loc: California, USA
Rob,

Just curious, but why the Denon receiver?
You have power amplification, why are you not going to shoot for a preprocessor?

Pete
_________________________
Integra DHC40.1 preprocessor, Outlaw 7100 Power amp, Martin Logan Aeon II front speakers, Axiom LP150 center speaker, Axiom QS8 surround speakers, Outlaw LFM1 Plus subwoofer, Oppo DBP-83 Blu-Ray/SACD/DVD player, AppleTV music/photo server, DirecTV HR20 satellite receiver

Pete

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#82606 - 03/02/10 08:31 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: petemc]
Robert Holloway Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 41
Loc: SF Cal
Hi Pete

Denon is the current fave based purely on the ability to process DTS MA and DD HD combined with HDMI switching. I reckon I can do this for about $999

I won't be using the amplification of the receiver. Prepro's tend to be far more expensive!

I'm totally open to suggestions - so please let me know if you have ideas.

Thanks
Rob
_________________________
Sony Pearl projector
120" 16x9 DaLite Hi Power screen
Outlaw 990 (gone) & 7700
3 Naim 135 amps
Sony Blu Ray
Mac Pro
Sony PS3
3 B&W full range spkrs
4 Kef full range spkrs
2 REL Stentor sub bass units :-)

Top
#82607 - 03/02/10 08:37 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: Robert Holloway]
Robert Holloway Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 41
Loc: SF Cal
Hi Pete

Can you say more about the Integra 40.1?
Just checked their website and other reviews.... looks interesting

Rob
_________________________
Sony Pearl projector
120" 16x9 DaLite Hi Power screen
Outlaw 990 (gone) & 7700
3 Naim 135 amps
Sony Blu Ray
Mac Pro
Sony PS3
3 B&W full range spkrs
4 Kef full range spkrs
2 REL Stentor sub bass units :-)

Top
#82610 - 03/03/10 03:21 AM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: Robert Holloway]
K. D. Jenkins Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 02/08/10
Posts: 12
Loc: Choctaw Casino Durant, OK
Robert Holloway- the 990 has a five year warranty. Why did you throw it in the trash? Even if you bought it used- the warranty should have been transferable. I have found the folks at Outlaw Audio to be completely trustworthy with service and warranty. This is hard to buy into!
_________________________
Living Room:
Denon AVR-4520ci,DBT-3313UDCI, Beta 360 Center, Infinity IL 10 Rears, Infinity Beta 50 Front, Velodyne CT-150 Subwoofer, Theater Solutions 15 in subwoofer, Samsung 67" LED RP TV,
Computer Room:
Denon AVR-3312ci as pre-amp using an Outlaw 770 Amp. Pioneer DV-610-AV , Panasonic DMP-BD77, HTD Level Three Tower speakers Front, HTD Level Three Bookshelf Rear, HTD Level Three Center. 2 each AudioSource PSW112 Subs, Akai RR, 22" LCD Monitor,WD TV, Technics SL-3300 TT with Ortofon X3-MC cartridge and Emotiva XPS-1 phono pre-amp

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#82612 - 03/03/10 03:55 AM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: K. D. Jenkins]
rubbersoul Offline
Desperado

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 379
Loc: folsom, pa.
Just throwing in my two cents here but for the life of me I do not understand why you trashed the 990.
I have the 990/7700 combo and have not had a problem let alone one that would make it a candidate for my local trash pickup.
I purchased my combo back in 2002.
Don't take offense it is your right to do whatever you want but I think you over re-acted...maybe because you wanted to move on with a newer piece of equipment.

I think that you made a rush to judgment concerning the 990.
Sorry for your loss.
_________________________
Outlaw 990/7700
Emotiva amps XPA1 x2
B&W 804S HTM3S DS7's
Fathom 110, 112Subs
Mitsubishi 6800 Projector
Da-Lite Screen,
Oppo BDP93
Sony 777 multi disc CD,SACD,DVD
Comcast
Furman Elite Conditioner
Cisco Ethernet Hub
Bryston BDA1 DAC
Chordette
Monster,MIT Terminator cables,BJC,Legend Audio
http://community.webshots.com/user/rubbersoul662001

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#82616 - 03/03/10 04:29 AM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: rubbersoul]
XenonMan Online   content
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2636
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
Robert,
Most of the newer AVP/AVRs are capable of decoding all of the formats you desire. The downside so far is that there is not a lot of media out there with the newer formats available. I regret your loss of the 990. What happened to it?

I jumped ship to the Onkyo 886 and am very happy with it. Why would you spend big $$$ on an AVR when you already have a great amp. Most of the lower tier AVRs will not allow you to decouple their amps from the pre-amps. I know the higher end Denons have separate pre-outs but it is a waste and is usually used for a second room HT setup. Sounds like I am trying to talk you off the ledge doesn't it?
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

Top
#82638 - 03/03/10 08:37 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: Robert Holloway]
petemc Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 21
Loc: California, USA
Originally Posted By: Robert Holloway
Hi Pete

Can you say more about the Integra 40.1?
Just checked their website and other reviews.... looks interesting

Rob

I am very happy with the Integra, I just sent you a PM with some extra information.

Pete
_________________________
Integra DHC40.1 preprocessor, Outlaw 7100 Power amp, Martin Logan Aeon II front speakers, Axiom LP150 center speaker, Axiom QS8 surround speakers, Outlaw LFM1 Plus subwoofer, Oppo DBP-83 Blu-Ray/SACD/DVD player, AppleTV music/photo server, DirecTV HR20 satellite receiver

Pete

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#82639 - 03/03/10 10:22 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: K. D. Jenkins]
Robert Holloway Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 41
Loc: SF Cal
Hi there,

I phoned Outlaw and was told that my 990 was out of warranty.

The unit had just stopped working. No idea why.

So I was faced with paying to ship the unit from CA to Outlaw and then pay to get the thing repaired. When I considered that it I was going to replace it anyway and non HDMI units are almost worthless at resale I chucked it.

Hard to do, but a good decision.

The Sony sounds great as always. It's a very fine pre amp. the HDMI switcher from Monoprice works like a charm.

Rob
_________________________
Sony Pearl projector
120" 16x9 DaLite Hi Power screen
Outlaw 990 (gone) & 7700
3 Naim 135 amps
Sony Blu Ray
Mac Pro
Sony PS3
3 B&W full range spkrs
4 Kef full range spkrs
2 REL Stentor sub bass units :-)

Top
#82640 - 03/03/10 10:27 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: XenonMan]
Robert Holloway Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 41
Loc: SF Cal
Originally Posted By: XenonMan
Robert,
Most of the newer AVP/AVRs are capable of decoding all of the formats you desire. The downside so far is that there is not a lot of media out there with the newer formats available. I regret your loss of the 990. What happened to it?

I jumped ship to the Onkyo 886 and am very happy with it. Why would you spend big $$$ on an AVR when you already have a great amp. Most of the lower tier AVRs will not allow you to decouple their amps from the pre-amps. I know the higher end Denons have separate pre-outs but it is a waste and is usually used for a second room HT setup. Sounds like I am trying to talk you off the ledge doesn't it?


here's what I've discovered

I need/want the DTS MA and DD HD processing along with HDMI switching and video up converting.

If there was a preamp for $1200 I'd buy it. I have 4 Naim 135 mono amps, 3 Audiolab Mono amps and the Outlaw 7 channel 9700. I don't need amplification.

I have no brand affinity to Denon, Onkyo or anyone else

Rob

PS - Talking of ships, it's sad that this forum has become a "We're on the Titanic, where should I go discussion" frown






Edited by Robert Holloway (03/03/10 10:28 PM)
_________________________
Sony Pearl projector
120" 16x9 DaLite Hi Power screen
Outlaw 990 (gone) & 7700
3 Naim 135 amps
Sony Blu Ray
Mac Pro
Sony PS3
3 B&W full range spkrs
4 Kef full range spkrs
2 REL Stentor sub bass units :-)

Top
#82641 - 03/04/10 03:14 AM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: Robert Holloway]
rubbersoul Offline
Desperado

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 379
Loc: folsom, pa.
I have read on this forum and on Facebook about some very unhappy campers concerning Outlaw Audio. Mostly about the ghostly 997.
I myself thought that Outlaw let the cat out of the bag about the 997 way to soon not realizing the negative impact the publicity or lack of...concerning the 997 would have on the company.
No-bodies perfect.
As I stated in an earlier post I have owned the 990/7700 combo since 2002 with no problems. I have not done the latest upgrade but I am currently using the DVI inputs for my projector without a hitch even though I had to update the firmware in my Infocus 7205 to utilize the DVI.

I too was very excited about a newer processor from Outlaw, reasonably priced with an automatic $200.00 discount since I am a current owner of a 990.
The 997 was just about off the drawing board when all of the hype was flying around on this forum.
I think a BIG mistake for Outlaw...and shame on Sherwood a company that Outlaw might reconsider.

I think that for all of us owners of the 990 patience will reap rewards.
Also I am enjoying what I have (990) an I am rethinking whether or not to buy the 997 whenever it comes out.
The 990 has given me eight years of enjoyment and continues to do so.
The 997 is not a priority but Outlaws message statement to me is what really counts.
_________________________
Outlaw 990/7700
Emotiva amps XPA1 x2
B&W 804S HTM3S DS7's
Fathom 110, 112Subs
Mitsubishi 6800 Projector
Da-Lite Screen,
Oppo BDP93
Sony 777 multi disc CD,SACD,DVD
Comcast
Furman Elite Conditioner
Cisco Ethernet Hub
Bryston BDA1 DAC
Chordette
Monster,MIT Terminator cables,BJC,Legend Audio
http://community.webshots.com/user/rubbersoul662001

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#82642 - 03/04/10 04:11 AM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: rubbersoul]
XenonMan Online   content
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2636
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
The fact that Outlaw has been completely mute on the subject of the 997 for some time now is a clear indication that something is amiss. PeterT needs to give the loyal people waiting for the 997 an update based on fact.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

Top
#82643 - 03/04/10 04:49 AM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: XenonMan]
tkntz Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 161
Loc: United States
I agree. I'm beginning to wonder if this thing will get pulled. The stuff being written by users on the R972 AVS Forum are pretty bad. I assume Outlaw is trying to produce a unit that doesn't have the same problems. Imagine the uproar if they release the unit this late and it still has massive bugs.

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#82644 - 03/04/10 05:53 AM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: tkntz]
Robert Holloway Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 41
Loc: SF Cal
The cool thing here is that we all wish Outlaw well and want them to succeed. We'd all love to have a 997 that worked well and was up to date in terms of technology.

My concern for Outlaw is that their competitors are moving forwards and 2 years is an eternity in this market place. There is no announcement of a delivery date, in fact I've nothing about anything. The sad fact is that in March 2010 we have no HDMI switching and no capability to deal with the higher end audio formats of Blu Ray. Competitors have this on the entry level products.

This is very strange from a small company dealing with their most loyal users and biggest fans. You can only draw one reasonable conclusion here.

Something with the 997 is wrong.

Even a quick read of the R972 thread at AVS yields much pessimism.

All this is sad because we all want Outlaw to succeed. Guys, you need to engage with your users and fans and say something. On March 9th it will be 6 months since we last heard anything. I run my own company and just cannot imagine in this day and age, leaving it 6 months before we updated people.

All the very best
Rob
_________________________
Sony Pearl projector
120" 16x9 DaLite Hi Power screen
Outlaw 990 (gone) & 7700
3 Naim 135 amps
Sony Blu Ray
Mac Pro
Sony PS3
3 B&W full range spkrs
4 Kef full range spkrs
2 REL Stentor sub bass units :-)

Top
#82645 - 03/04/10 06:24 AM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: Robert Holloway]
73Bruin Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 499
Loc: Torrance, CA USA
I am having a hard time figuring this out as well. In addition to the 990, Outlaw has known that it would need to replace the 970 and 1070 as well. Given that the agreement with SN does not allow Outlaw to develop a receiver off of that platform, you would think that something different from the 997 should have been ready by now as well. I think that the 886 was the contingency plan on the high end. I am wondering what would be the plan is on the lower end?

On a completely different note, given all of the positive comments about the the OPPO BD-83 and 83-SE, could OPPO be a potential business partner for Outlaw? Imagine a merger of the 990/BD-83 or 83-SE into a single unit?
_________________________
Living Room 24x18 open 1/2 flight up to a raised dining room/hall 24x12
Outlaw 975 pre-pro running 5.1 system via HDS-42AVR
2 Ch Parasound HCA-1200II amp 205wpc for NHT VT-1.4 mains
Outlaw 750 for NHT VS-1.4 center and 2 NHT SuperZeros rears
Velodyne Servo FX-1200
LG OLED65C8PUA via HDMI from HDS-42AVR & to the 975 via ARC
Samsung BD-D5500 BluRay via HDMI to HDS-42AVR
Arris 6 Channel whole house DVR via Time Warner Cable via HDMI to HDS-42AVR

Family Room/Kitchen 24x15
Outlaw 1050
NHT SB-2 Main - Outlaw LFM-1 Compact Sub
Squeezebox v3 Classic
Visio 32" HDTV via Arris HD Cable Box

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#82647 - 03/04/10 08:12 AM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: Robert Holloway]
Jimna Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 236
Loc: Denver, CO
im amazed someone from outlaw isnt doing some damage control in the PR department around here. all this chatter unanswered from them sure does reinforce the bad vibes.
_________________________
J.Mimna Photography
Live Concert Recordist

Outlaw 970>
Emotiva XPA-2>
Martin Logan Preface

Some Of My Live Recordings: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/J.Mimna

My Concert Photographs: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimna/collections/72157613267633153/

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#82648 - 03/04/10 12:04 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: Jimna]
neekos Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 27
Hi guys, I've been following this 997 story for quite a while and as a prior Outlaw owner, I can't understand what Outlaw is thinking with this silence? It's obvious that the 997 has hit a brick wall, but come out and say so...

The Emotiva UMC-1 has been out for a few months now and they are working on getting the bugs out. I've heard it and it sounds fantastic. They at least tell their customers what the status is and what they are doing to address the issues. Outlaw better follow suit.


Edited by neekos (03/04/10 12:05 PM)

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#82650 - 03/04/10 02:11 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: neekos]
UtahGuy Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 07/15/09
Posts: 22
Loc: Pleasant Grove, Utah
Hey all!

Just a thought that's been running through my mind over this situation. I've also been keeping track of the Sherwood 972 and at times shaking my head over how buggy that thing is, or should I say that Sherwood had the nerve to actually sell a product that was that riddled with problems. I can empathize with other's desire as I find myself practically chomping at the bit to get my hands on a 997 of my very own. I'd love to get some information regarding progress, but what if the Outlaws simply have no idea when it's going to be ready. Regardless of PeterT comes on and says 'we don't have a definite date' it's basically the same thing, just we'd know he doesn't know either.

I temporarily jumped ship and auditioned a Pioneer receiver and it was the classic 'green/black screen' plus no way for the user to update the unit that caused me to take it back to Best Buy. I have no desire to deal with that again. It's Outlaw's past history and the praises it's current customers (I'll be happy to add to that with the experience with the 7125 amp!) that keeps me waiting. Plus this Trinnov deal sounds appealing what with (When they happen) positive comments regarding the 972.

If it took six months of Beta testing on the Oppo BD-83 player and considering how more complex a pre/pro likely is, and I seem to remember Outlaw having preliminary 997 units last July, it might not unreasonable to expect to not see the unit until this Summer.

Yeah, kinda hurts me too, but maybe a totally random point of view might help some? wink

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#82652 - 03/04/10 02:53 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: Jimna]
vläd Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 21
Loc: Southwest Desert USA
Originally Posted By: Jimna
im amazed someone from outlaw isnt doing some damage control in the PR department around here. all this chatter unanswered from them sure does reinforce the bad vibes.


While I'm sure that everyone here are quite civil, it's not always in the best interest of a company for them to offer information. I'm sure that any comment here would find it's way to other forums where the people aren't quite as nice.

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#82659 - 03/04/10 05:02 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: vläd]
ljpchp Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/17/05
Posts: 21
Loc: Sunnyvale, CA
I have officially jumped ship. I purchased an Onkyo PR-SC5507P that everyone seems to be happy with. I heard that there is some relay noise when skipping commercials on a dvr but I contacted Onkyo and they got back to me in less than 24 hours telling me that a firmware update was coming in a week or two to fix it.

It has been months since we have heard anything useful about the 997.

I will send my 990 back to Outlaw to be repaired since it is still under warranty and you will find it on Audigon or ebay soon.

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#82681 - 03/06/10 12:07 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: neekos]
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Originally Posted By: neekos
Hi guys, I've been following this 997 story for quite a while and as a prior Outlaw owner, I can't understand what Outlaw is thinking with this silence? It's obvious that the 997 has hit a brick wall, but come out and say so...

I know that my curiosity would enjoy an update and I'm sure Outlaw would like to drop in here and offer some kind of news for us all, but based on what I've seen in the R-972 thread at AVS there are some bugs under the hood that simply wouldn't pass muster with the Outlaws. In light of the delays and ongoing problems Sherwood has had so far with the R-972, Outlaw may be unwilling to commit to anything until they have debugged firmware in hand. Considering the way the R-972 thread has evolved at AVS, I'd certainly feel that way.
Originally Posted By: neekos
The Emotiva UMC-1 has been out for a few months now and they are working on getting the bugs out. I've heard it and it sounds fantastic. They at least tell their customers what the status is and what they are doing to address the issues. Outlaw better follow suit.

The UMC-1 may not be the best role model for product development and release. Emotiva talked a lot about the UMC-1 for the two years that it was in development, including a string of promised release dates that were missed. They promised a stable product at launch, even going so far as to refer to a pre-production sample they had in early December as being operationally "perfect." They have upset a whole lot of customers over the UMC-1, which (roughly two months after its release) is still considered by some to be at a "beta" level of development.

This process is a weird juggling act. I don't know what the right answer is, in part because I don't know what the actual state of development is, but I know it's a difficult process to manage.


Edited by gonk (03/06/10 12:08 PM)
_________________________
gonk
HT Basics | HDMI FAQ | Pics | Remote Files | Art Show
Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#82682 - 03/06/10 12:16 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: gonk]
ljpchp Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/17/05
Posts: 21
Loc: Sunnyvale, CA
That's is why I went to the Onkyo 5507. The bugs it may have are minor to what you here about the Sherwood and Emotiva units.

I debated continuing to wait for the 997, or the XMC-1 or the new Halo unit, but I just do not have confidence that any of them will meet a release date and be bug free or at list a normal amount of bugs. The Onkyo/Integra units while certintly not perfect seem to be on the whole much better

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#82684 - 03/06/10 02:15 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: gonk]
neekos Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 27
Originally Posted By: gonk
Originally Posted By: neekos
Hi guys, I've been following this 997 story for quite a while and as a prior Outlaw owner, I can't understand what Outlaw is thinking with this silence? It's obvious that the 997 has hit a brick wall, but come out and say so...

I know that my curiosity would enjoy an update and I'm sure Outlaw would like to drop in here and offer some kind of news for us all, but based on what I've seen in the R-972 thread at AVS there are some bugs under the hood that simply wouldn't pass muster with the Outlaws. In light of the delays and ongoing problems Sherwood has had so far with the R-972, Outlaw may be unwilling to commit to anything until they have debugged firmware in hand. Considering the way the R-972 thread has evolved at AVS, I'd certainly feel that way.
Originally Posted By: neekos
The Emotiva UMC-1 has been out for a few months now and they are working on getting the bugs out. I've heard it and it sounds fantastic. They at least tell their customers what the status is and what they are doing to address the issues. Outlaw better follow suit.

The UMC-1 may not be the best role model for product development and release. Emotiva talked a lot about the UMC-1 for the two years that it was in development, including a string of promised release dates that were missed. They promised a stable product at launch, even going so far as to refer to a pre-production sample they had in early December as being operationally "perfect." They have upset a whole lot of customers over the UMC-1, which (roughly two months after its release) is still considered by some to be at a "beta" level of development.

This process is a weird juggling act. I don't know what the right answer is, in part because I don't know what the actual state of development is, but I know it's a difficult process to manage.


While the UMC is far from perfect,it's out there and if you've never heard it, you should. The sound is fantastic. I commend Emotiva for putting up with the abuse. Sure there were delays, but every several months, Emotiva would update people on the status of the UMC, sometimes the span of updates were longer, but they came. When was the last time Outlaw gave any details about the 997?


Edited by neekos (03/06/10 02:17 PM)

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#82685 - 03/06/10 03:12 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: neekos]
petemc Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 21
Loc: California, USA
While I admire gonk's continued positive attitude towards Outlaw, I think that most would agree that Outlaw really screwed up on launching the 997.

Having said that, I do not believe that it was totally their fault. Only idiots would pre-announce a product if they knew there were major problems with it, and I don't believe that the Outlaw folks are idiots. More than likely, they believed that this product was closer to production status because that's what they were told by the Inkel engineering team developing the core products and functionality (Inkel is Sherwood USA's mother ship in Korea).

But before we blame the engineering team, we should all remember that these products are hugely complex, build around advanced processing and computing chips that execute in numerous modes of operation, driven by complex suites of software. Getting it right, on time, is really tough ... I have worked in and around complex semiconductors for over 30 years, and have experienced and observed these problems first hand.

Having said this, it really is time for Outlaw to provide additional update on the status of the 997 for those continuing to patiently wait. The faithful is starting to lose faith in growing numbers, and the risk of not acting is that many more of the faithful will look elsewhere to get what they want.

C'mon Outlaw, it's time for an update.

Pete
_________________________
Integra DHC40.1 preprocessor, Outlaw 7100 Power amp, Martin Logan Aeon II front speakers, Axiom LP150 center speaker, Axiom QS8 surround speakers, Outlaw LFM1 Plus subwoofer, Oppo DBP-83 Blu-Ray/SACD/DVD player, AppleTV music/photo server, DirecTV HR20 satellite receiver

Pete

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#82687 - 03/06/10 09:20 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: petemc]
Robert Holloway Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 41
Loc: SF Cal
The reality in 20101 on line is that brands have to have dialogs with their customers.

The silence created bad feeling, distrust and ultimately abandonment.

It's better to give bad news than no news at all because it creates an atmosphere of trust.

The only issue for the Outlaws is that as a small company they bet on a product that simply does not perform and they have no plan B. I hope I'm wrong, but silence suggests the worst.

Hope not
Rob
_________________________
Sony Pearl projector
120" 16x9 DaLite Hi Power screen
Outlaw 990 (gone) & 7700
3 Naim 135 amps
Sony Blu Ray
Mac Pro
Sony PS3
3 B&W full range spkrs
4 Kef full range spkrs
2 REL Stentor sub bass units :-)

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#82698 - 03/07/10 06:55 AM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: Robert Holloway]
md Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 11/24/09
Posts: 13
Perhaps if all who visit this forum were to avoid it (the forum) for a week in protest of Outlaw's failure to communicate with us regarding the 997, they (Outlaw Audio) would finally get their heads out of the sand and provide an update on the 997.

As for me, I am patiently waiting for the 997; but, if an Integra or other (sorry, Denon not included, horrible quality there) model with Trinnov came along, I am quite certain that I would jump ship too.

Outlaw's failure to provide a new pre/pro within a reasonable product life-cycle time period makes me wonder if they will be around to service the 997 (if it ever comes to market). Outlaw's track record of great product support/customer service will mean nothing if they are out of business.

So, I say to Outlaw, an update on the status of the 997 is ridiculously long overdue!

Throw us a frickin' bone here, lest you want the dogs to go wandering elsewhere looking for their food.

Seriously, it is time for an update.


Edited by md (03/08/10 05:21 PM)

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#82700 - 03/07/10 06:58 AM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: Robert Holloway]
H Stevens Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 06/29/09
Posts: 61
Loc: Rhode Island
Peter T has come on several times to provide updates, most recently here: http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubbthreads/ub...81611#Post81611 It is probably not in his best interest to post weekly, bi-weekly or monthly statements basically reverberating the same thing over and over, which is that there is no new news to report and that they are still in a holding pattern or trying to work out the bugs or both.

I have a hunch that Outlaw has several new products that they would like to release, including a 970 replacement, but they are stuck because of the 997 issue. Obviously the 997 is their flag ship product and releasing anything before the 970 would cut into the eventual 997 sales.

Finally, I would like to see Outlaw hold off even longer with the 997 because of future trends. Currently the new AVR's in production like the soon to be released Pioneer's will have have 3D and HDMI 1.4 capability as well as other features that do not appear to be planned for the 997. Of course we do not have the final feature list for the 997, but if you compare it with it's sister the 972, you can obtain a good reference of it's abilities.

Why release a product now that is basically behind the curve?

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#82716 - 03/07/10 12:33 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: Robert Holloway]
PeterT Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 263
Fellow Outlaws:

As many of you have read over at AVS Forum, there are many issues surrounding the current status of the R-972, which in turn impacts the Model 997. We have purposely held off on any announcements about our product plans until we can provide you with reliable and accurate information, and we expect to have that shortly.

Please be patient for a few more days. We will have an update for you before the end of this coming week that will answer your questions.

Peter

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#82718 - 03/07/10 12:56 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: PeterT]
SRW1000 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 48
Loc: Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: PeterT
Fellow Outlaws:

As many of you have read over at AVS Forum, there are many issues surrounding the current status of the R-972, which in turn impacts the Model 997. We have purposely held off on any announcements about our product plans until we can provide you with reliable and accurate information, and we expect to have that shortly.

Please be patient for a few more days. We will have an update for you before the end of this coming week that will answer your questions.

Peter

Thank you, Peter. We are all hopeful that it will be good news.

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#82719 - 03/07/10 03:20 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: SRW1000]
barumba Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 19
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Hmm, tic-toc, tic-toc.
Two years ago I bought the 7125 amp to power up and in anticipation of the "soon to be released" 997.
Still waiting, still bragging on Outlaw to my friends. I hope the news "soon to be released" is good. I have an entire system in my "other" room awaiting a processor. Every time I walk into the "other" room, I get this cold, steely-eyed glare from the components and sound system languishing in silence. I don't know if I can wait much longer. They are putting a lot of pressure on me to pony up for the "missing link".
C'mon Outlaw, let's make this happen!

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#82736 - 03/08/10 05:18 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: barumba]
md Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 11/24/09
Posts: 13
Peter,

Thank you for your reply to our request(s).

And, thank you for being definitive with your time-frame for your upcoming update.

Again, thank you.

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#82740 - 03/09/10 06:40 AM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: md]
Jimna Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 236
Loc: Denver, CO
Hi Peter. Thanks for the long over due communications. i have a question regarding new products, is there any in the works? all this let down over the 997 might be less spot lighted if there was news of other new products to look forward too. i had asked about a 2 channel preamp, but im sure that as fast as the industry evolves there is plenty of other new or upgraded products that would be the next harvest from outlaw. is there anything to look forward to beside the 997? does outlaw have any interest in expanding the 2 channel options like a 2 channel amp(not that a 2 channel amp wouldnt be 100% valuable in HT apps too) or a 2 channel pre? another option would be a DAC from outlaw. just curious about the future bringings of outlaw beside the letdown of the 997 and hoping the future doesnt hinge on that.

what can we look forward to in the future Peter?

thanks
Jim
_________________________
J.Mimna Photography
Live Concert Recordist

Outlaw 970>
Emotiva XPA-2>
Martin Logan Preface

Some Of My Live Recordings: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/J.Mimna

My Concert Photographs: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimna/collections/72157613267633153/

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#82741 - 03/09/10 09:13 AM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: Jimna]
brianm Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Hawaii
Great. Any news is great to hear. I'm waiting also and was looking at the UMC-1 but that unit has problems also.
- Brian

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#82748 - 03/09/10 02:41 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: brianm]
PeterT Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 263
Jimna,

We presently have four products in development. I know for sure you will be happy with one of them. Also, at least two of these products will require Beta testers. But everything in its time. That is all I can say for now.

Peter

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#82751 - 03/09/10 05:56 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: PeterT]
Retep Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/19/06
Posts: 266
Loc: Tauranga, New Zealand
Originally Posted By: PeterT

We presently have four products in development. I know for sure you will be happy with one of them. Also, at least two of these products will require Beta testers. But everything in its time. That is all I can say for now.

Peter


Awesome! Looking forward to the announcements.

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#82753 - 03/09/10 06:05 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: PeterT]
Jimna Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 236
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: PeterT
Jimna,

We presently have four products in development. I know for sure you will be happy with one of them. Also, at least two of these products will require Beta testers. But everything in its time. That is all I can say for now.

Peter
Sweet! Cant wait for more news. Thanks for some crumbs!
_________________________
J.Mimna Photography
Live Concert Recordist

Outlaw 970>
Emotiva XPA-2>
Martin Logan Preface

Some Of My Live Recordings: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/J.Mimna

My Concert Photographs: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimna/collections/72157613267633153/

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#82759 - 03/10/10 08:51 AM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: Jimna]
Hank Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/30/01
Posts: 342
Loc: Austin, Texas, USA
Peter, thanks for chiming in. I look forward to the 997 news and other products road map.
Luckily my 950 is still functioning.
_________________________
"Do you expect me to talk?"
"No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!"

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#82763 - 03/10/10 05:10 PM Re: Very sad situation here [Re: Hank]
Robert Holloway Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 41
Loc: SF Cal
Sad day. I finally caved and bought the Onkyo HT-RC180

I simply need excellent processing and HDMI switching.
I have 7 channels of amplification from my Outlaw 7700
3 channels from Naim Mono 135's
and now another 7 from Onkyo.

$620 at 6th Avenue

Genuinely sad it did not work out with the Outlaws
Rob
_________________________
Sony Pearl projector
120" 16x9 DaLite Hi Power screen
Outlaw 990 (gone) & 7700
3 Naim 135 amps
Sony Blu Ray
Mac Pro
Sony PS3
3 B&W full range spkrs
4 Kef full range spkrs
2 REL Stentor sub bass units :-)

Top
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