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#82313 - 01/31/10 02:23 PM Why trust Outlaw?..........
ready504 Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 12/07/06
Posts: 3
many are perpetually waiting for the arrival of mythical 997. I wonder how many of those waiting for the 997 are owners of the Outlaw 970 pre/pro.

As many of you know, this model, while it did provide considerable "bang-for-the-buck" it was sold (and continues to be sold) defective. Outlaw sold this product knowing that many units were defective with the "no-audio" bug --- among other glitches.

So, I wonder why so many are anxiously awaiting the debut of another untested Outlaw product in the 997? What has Outlaw done to convince the buying public that they will not repeat this behavior when (not if) the bugs start popping up on the 997?

If history is any indication of future behavior, it would seem unwise to invest in Outlaw again, knowing that they are comfortable with selling defective products.

This is not meant to 'throw Outlaw under the bus', rather, I think a healthly conversation about their past behavior should be conducted while many wait to drop $1,400 on another Outlaw pre/pro....

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#82314 - 01/31/10 05:33 PM Re: Why trust Outlaw?.......... [Re: ready504]
ryck Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/03/02
Posts: 18
Loc: saratoga springs,ny,usa
Can't comment on the 997 as it's not out yet. Also can't comment on the 970 because I don't own one. But I have owned both a 950 and a 990 and can only praise OUTLAW AUDIO for the great pre/pro's and outstanding customer service I have received when needed.
"This is not meant to 'throw Outlaw under the bus', rather, I think a healthly conversation about their past behavior should be conducted while many wait to drop $1,400 on another Outlaw pre/pro...."
Don't understand this comment. Do you own or have you dealt with OUTLAW AUDIO. Besides owning the two pre/pro's, I also have purchased a model 7125 AMP,subwoofer, Vudu XL, cables and the Onkyo PR-SC 886. OUTLAW has been the best online company I have conducted business with. Any problem was handled professionally and quickly.
When the 997 is ready for production my 990 will be sold.


Edited by ryck (01/31/10 05:36 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
rick

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#82315 - 01/31/10 05:33 PM Re: Why trust Outlaw?.......... [Re: ready504]
praedet Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/10/09
Posts: 66
Loc: Nebraska
The 990 was better, and my 2nd 970 that I got dirt cheap (I think for around $300 from B-Stock) has worked great wink

So have the 7700 and the LFM-1EX...

Do you drive a Toyota?
_________________________
Speakers
Mains: Ninja Master Polk LSi9s
Center: Ninja Master Polk LSiC
Surround Sides: Slightly Modded Polk LSiFXs
Surround Rears: X-over+ Modded Polk LSi7s
Subs: Outlaw LFM-1 EX and Polk 505
Electronics
Sherwood R-972 (Waiting for the Outlaw (9XX)
Outlaw 7700 Amp
Oppo BDP-103
Signal Cable, Advanced Technology, and Outlaw Audio Cables
2 APC H-15s and an UberBUSS for good measure

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#82321 - 02/01/10 10:40 AM Re: Why trust Outlaw?.......... [Re: ready504]
H Stevens Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 06/29/09
Posts: 61
Loc: Rhode Island
I purchased a 970 and a 7125 this past July along with all of the Outlaw cables that I needed. I cannot be happier, I love this stuff to death. The 970 has been great with not one problem and we run this thing every day listening to music, watching DirecTv and home theater movies. I plan on purchasing our first HD TV this summer, and when we do, we will upgrade the 970. Whatever we purchase will definitely be Outlaw just not the 997 because it is more than what we need. However, I am sure that Outlaw will be releasing a product for those of us that don't require or who cannot afford a 997. We are also planning on upgrading our sub, we are just waiting to see what Outlaw has ups it's sleeves in that category. Thank you Outlaw for great products, great service and awesome sound!

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#82327 - 02/01/10 12:44 PM Re: Why trust Outlaw?.......... [Re: H Stevens]
XenonMan Online   content
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2636
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
I have multiple pieces of Outlaw equipment and I bought the Onkyo PR-SC886 from them because I trust them to do me right. Like others I was waiting for the 997 but it just didn't make it on time. I have 2 outlaw amps and have had work done on one of them and it was a very pleasant experience. I sent my 7125 off for a dead channel and had it back 8 days later fully restored. When my 886 arrived it had not yet had its firmware updated to the latest version. I called Outlaw and they sent me a shipping label to send it back and get it right. 10 days later it was back and perfect. Sometimes equipment has issues which can't be fixed , no matter what. I believe the Outlaws will go the extra steps to make it right when they are able to. The OP is right about needing a healthy conversation about Outlaws past practices but he is on the wrong side of the street.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

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#82329 - 02/01/10 01:28 PM Re: Why trust Outlaw?.......... [Re: XenonMan]
iardon Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 73

My experiences with Outlaw's customer service has been excellent, but I would say neutral when it comes to their products. I own the 970 and had problems with it from the beginning. I had it replaced at least once (can't remember if it was once or twice) and also had it serviced once. It came back from service working fine but now it is making some odd clicking noises and I'm done with it. I'll be putting it on ebay sometime in the future.

Haven't had any problems with the 7100 amp I bought from them though I suspect if I swapped it out with a higher quality amp my popping would disappear. Just a guess at this point.

Also bought the Onkyo 886. Great unit but got it with the old firmware. I was too lazy to deal with sending it back for the updated firmware but it works and I don't have any issues.

Just got some used Outlaw 200 monoblocks. Besides the pretty loud hiss they produce from my tweeters, they seem ok. What can I say, I'm hard to please when it comes to audio equipment. Outlaw makes good stuff that's affordable, so I'll stick with them and just hope for the best. Sometimes it works out, and sometimes it doesn't.... like with the 970.

I hope the 997 does turn out to be a good product like the 990 as I know my brother is waiting patiently for it.
_________________________
Onkyo PR-SC886 (Retired Outlaw 970)
Outlaw 7100
Outlaw 200 Monoblock x2
M&K 851 for L/C/R
Axiom QS8 for SL/SR/1SB
SVS Pb12-ISD/2 (x2)
Sony VPL-HW15 (Retired Infocus 7205)
Sony PS3 / Pioneer DV-533

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#82330 - 02/01/10 01:35 PM Re: Why trust Outlaw?.......... [Re: XenonMan]
soccerdad Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate New York
I was just thinking it's a good thing electronics and this "hobby" are not like marriage...I may have a fault or two and I'm sure I'm missing a feature here and there, but at least for 10 years the wife has been patient, recognized the good and not traded up. We have the LFM1 and the 1050(for 9 years) and it will go to our son when he goes to college in 5 yrs. We picked up the 970/7125 and Oppo in December and love it and have had no issues.
The 970 was ordered on Wed, they got my check on thurs, and I had it on Friday.
Thanks Outlaw for the great service and products at an exceptional value.
just my 2 cents
_________________________
976/7125/OPPO BDP-83
NHT 2.5i's main, NHT Superones Side/Rear, Mirage OMNI CC center
2 M8 subs, Harmony 650, OAW3
Samsung 60" 4k
Outlaw 970 still works great(just decided to finally upgrade)

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#82331 - 02/01/10 08:21 PM Re: Why trust Outlaw?.......... [Re: soccerdad]
AvFan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/12/05
Posts: 609
Loc: El Cajon, California
I will weigh in on this topic, but gently. I can't speak to the issues folks had with the 970 as I never owned one. I do have the 990 and have been very pleased. Outlaw provided terrific customer service when it developed some kind of fault and needed repair. They did it quickly and I've not had any issues since. I did order 5 monoblocks from them some time ago and after running them in my system I just didn't like their performance. They took them back as advertised. Outlaw has provided me very good customer service and I have recommended them to coworkers and friends.

I originally looked at Outlaw because they offered feature-rich products that seemed to have just what was needed at excellent prices. I think they offer that now but I also think some of their luster has come off recently. Those original products were unique but is seems now a lot of their products are rebadged from other manufacturers. In some cases that is a good thing; their multi channel amps are from ATI. ATI has an excellent reputation and are used by several other companies plus Outlaw's prices on those amps are very competitive. They have also worked good combo deals such as including the OPPO BDP-83 in one of their packages that have benefited customers.

I hope Outlaw can get back to offering those unique products that find footholds like the 950 and 990 did. Products that offer just the right features at an excellent price. I often thought the 990 was the reasonable man's Anthem AVM-30. I hope the 997 hits a sweet spot and is favorably compared to Anthem's AVM-50v. And the price comparison between the two: $1,400 for the 997 and list price of $5,500 for the AVM-50v. That alone is worth the wait.
_________________________
AvFan
Outlaw 976 | ATI 2005 | M&K 850s Left, Center & Right, Surround-55s, MX-70B Sub | Harmony 950 remote | Panamax 5100 | OPPO UDP-203 | LG OLED55B7

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#82332 - 02/02/10 12:57 AM Re: Why trust Outlaw?.......... [Re: AvFan]
og33 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 185
Loc: White Cloud, Michigan
I've owned 3 different Outlaw amps and 2 970's. I also 'tried' a 1070 for 30 days and had originally bought a 990 but sent it back as it was too big for my av rack. Also 'tried' an LCR for 30 days and it didn't work out timbre wise with my system...no problem...just sent it back. The Outlaws have always been great to deal with and provide great customer service. Yeah, there's an issue with the 970...I ended up sending my first one back for repairs though and it was fixed right and I got it back pretty quick too. Try that with some of the big name companies out there, some of whom also have glitchy products. My current 970 has issues (see my speaker hiss thread, but for the money it's still a good value. I will continue to be an Outlaw customer. Don't know if I will purchase a 997, but they are one company I have no problems dealing with because I know they will treat me right should there be a problem.
_________________________
HT:
Pioneer VSX-1120
Salk Songbirds, SongCenter, SongSurrounds
Panasonic BDP-45
Outlaw LFM-2

2 Channel:
Red Dragon M-500 monoblocks
BAT-VK3i
Salk HT-1TL's
Apple TV
Beresford 7520 DAC
Surgex XS10

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#82360 - 02/07/10 03:51 AM Re: Why trust Outlaw?.......... [Re: ready504]
Ritz2 Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 411
Loc: Virginia
Before I answer, I'd like to say that on the one occasion where I needed support, Outlaw's support was excellent (one of my LFM-1's arrived with a defective amp and they cross-shipped the replacement without any prodding). So in that regard, I trust them.

That said, whether I trust them or not has ceased to be relevant. Outlaw has really lost its way. 5 years ago when I loaded up on home theater gear, Outlaw really was a bargain and offered performance that wasn't available at an affordable price point and features in the 990 that were cutting edge at any price at that time. Today, at least from where I'm standing, Outlaw appears to be mostly a re-branding service. Speakers from Snell, Subs from Hsu, processors from Onkyo, gadgets from Velodyne, cables from God-knows-where, etc. It's audioadvisor with a custom label. frown

Times have changed. There are other outfits selling similar gear at lower prices on the one hand and you can go into brick and mortar electronics stores today and get competitively priced theater gear at prices comparable to Outlaw. What you don't get is the service, but a lot of folks will forgo that to save a buck or to satisfy an impulse buying urge. When I look at how active this web site was a few years ago and compare it to the sleepy place that it has become, it seems obvious to me that the market dynamics have changed and fewer new people are stopping by to take a look. That doesn't bode well at all. So while I trust Outlaw, they have ceased selling things that are attractive to me. Maybe the 997 (if/when it ever ships) and their fancy new speaker line (hopefully not assembled in China) will change things, but they've got a long row to hoe and the 997 debacle has cost them dearly in terms of sales and customer loyalty. I wish the company well, but I'm not optimistic about their chances of being around another 5 years.

Best,
_________________________
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