Thats all fine and dandy but I'm going to wait for the 997. BTW I found the PR-SC886 on several other online retailers I use for $999, so maybe this isn't a great deal.

Oh yeah, free shipping with that price as well.

Are they new or refurbished?

The one's I've seen for that price are new, but not sure if it's an authorized dealer.

The "ShopOnkyo" site had been selling B-stock 886's for $999 recently. Are they still doing so? I'd also be curious to know if other sites are authorized - if they're not, you can forget about a warranty...

I recently bought a 886 from shoponkyo.com during their apparent clearance sale of refurbs for $999.

Many on the AVS forum claim a lot of these units were new. Some suggested if the serial number started with a "R", it was a refurbed unit. If the unit shpped with the current FW version of 1.4, it was a refurbed unit and Onkyo made the update. My unit was flawless, the serial number does notstart with a "R", and had 1.0 FW installed. I updated it myself to 1.4.

I have had my 886 for about a week, and I love it. The sound is incredible. I wanted to wait for the 997 but I dont think it will be out soon.

It is a very nice gesture for Outlaw to offer these units, even seeming to "authorize" them with a section for posting a competing product. But the price seems pretty high (IMO).

I think Onkyo is planning on releasing a PR-SC5507 model in the future, but I am not sure when or what upgrades it will have over the 886.

I know accessories4less had them the other day for $999 (refurbs) and they are an authorized dealer. I tried to look this morning and couldn't access their site for some reason. Accessories4less seems to have a good rep. I'm glad Outlaw is offering this option to us, but I agree, the price seems high.

Does anyone know what the Outlaw warranty on the 886 will be?

I am also sure I got a brand new 886 from Shoponkyo but I think it was just luck of the draw.

I'm not sure I'd wait for the 997 if you want a new preamp because I believe the Onkyo has more features anyways (2 hdmi outs, etc...). I have no doubt though the 997 will be very nice (and probably a little cheaper).

The replacement for this model is already available in Europe for the ridiculous price of $3,300:

http://www.eu.onkyo.com/products/PR-SC5507.html

Should be available in the US for (perhaps) approx. $2,100

I also bought a 886 from shoponkyo and received a brand new unit. The majority of members over at AVS have also posted the 886s they bought from shoponkyo and A4L were new units in sealed boxes. The 885 I bought from shoponkyo was also a new unit.

I am curious to know if the 886s Outlaw will be selling will be the PR-SC886P or the PR-SC886. The difference is the "P" model (Professional) comes with the rack mount kit. The 885 and 886 I bought from shoponkyo were the non "P" models.

If Outlaw will be selling the non "P" models that might be why the 886 is no longer available on shoponkyo. Maybe shoponkyo has an arrangement with Outlaw to provide the new units they were selling as "refurbs".

Bill

How did you update it yourself? The only firmwear upgrade listed on Onkyo's site is for the TX-SR605, DV-HD805, and TX-SR605 ?
Also, Accessories for less is an authorized dealer for Onkyo. I checked with Onkyo before buying.

and had 1.0 FW installed. I updated it myself to 1.4.

One more question, how did you determine your firmwear issue?

How do you know the unit was "new"? Did it have a 2 year warranty?

This is my first post, so please go easy on me . Could Onkyo want to integrate Trinnov with their products? I, like many of you, have been wondering "why the 886?" and "why the expense?" Anybody know if the 886 has sufficient DSP-power to implement Trinnov in place of Audyssey? If yes, could a firmware upgrade get the Trinnov code in there? Is there any way to get the Trinnov microphone signal into the 886? Maybe HDMI, or multi-channel analog? Please don't hurt me.

Hey, CP1966 - I'm interested to hear that you think the Onkyo's sound is "incredible", but (1) is that compared to the Outlaw 990 and (2) have you used the phono preamp? The 997 interest of a lot of us vinyl lovers would be much higher if it had one.

My personal opinion is that the 886 sounds more "spacious" than the 990. It sounds more alive.

Another thing I noticed is the dynamic range seems larger. When watching "watchmen" there were times that the dialogue was not real loud, than other parts of the movie were quite loud. It was night and day in terms of teh dynamic range.

I also watched parts of Quantum of Solace (Blu Ray) and I noticed the same thing.

I liked the sound of the 990, but I have to say I am very impressed with the 886.

FWIW, I have an Outlaw 7700 amp, Klipsch RF7 main speakers, a Klipsch RFC center and a pair of Klipsch RS7 surrounds, and I was using a PS3 for the DVD player. My sub is a definitive technolgy PF1500 subwoofer.

I have not yet played an LP, so I am not sure how that sounds. I will try it this weekend.

**EDIT**

I just popped in the "Thriller" LP by Michael Jackson. I had to crank the volume way up to get decent volume. And I mean WAY up! I do not recall the 990 having to do this but I rarely listen to albums. I also noticed bleedthru from the FM radio, which is what I was listening to before I set it to the turntable.

If the 886 is anything like the 885 I have, the phono stage is really weak. The 990's is probably superior, although I haven't heard it.

The 886 is not known for its analog SQ. Although the upcoming 5507 (886 replacement) might improve on the weak analog section of the 886. I have had a 805, 885 and now have the 886 with all I have used a 2 CH preamp with HT Bypass for 2 CH analog music listening. I presently have a Parasound 2100 and it is a excellent sounding preamp IMO.

http://www.parasound.com/nc/2100.php

I do not have my old TT hooked up at this time although I was going through my album collection awhile back .

Bill

I just checked the link to the 5507 and if you clik on the picture in the upper left for the rear view to see the connections, look at the bottom right model#. PR-SC887. Hmmm verrry interesting.

I noticed that as well when the pictures were first posted on AVS. I think it will be the 5507 and not the 887 as shown on the rear panel. The receiver number designations have changed as well such as the 5007, 3007 and 1007.

So my thoughts are the preproduction pictures were shot before Onkyo decided to change the model number. Thats my guess . Either way the 887/5507 looks to be a killer prepro .

Bill

Well it looks like my 886 is soon to be "obsolete". If Onkyo isn' posting upgrades on their web site for the PRO section now, can you imagine how difficult it will be in the future. To me this is a reason to wait for the 997. Now I can enjoy my 886 until the 997 comes out and wait a year or two, read the reviews, get the bugs out and buy one then. I e-mailed Onkyo for upgrade info over a week ago and still haven't rec'vd an answer. If it were'nt for forums like this I would never have known about the upgrade fix. Product support is worth waiting for.

Actually, Onkyo never posted updates for 885 firmware even when it was in production - they insisted that you take your unit to a service center. It was a massive chore to get the necessary update files to upgrade the units to fix the DTS bitstream bomb. It's not a matter of being obsolete - it's a matter of Onkyo's customer service being pretty bad.

No offense to the 997 but how does one know if there could be possible bugs with it as well that any new A/V processor could have? The 886 will be far from "obsolete" anytime soon IMO. Unfortunately if the 997 is not released soon it could possibly be "obsolete" like the 886 .

Are you talking about the 5507 when you mention waiting a year or two to get the bugs out? The 9.8/885 had its share of issues but the 9.9/886 was much refined with minimal issues. So I expect the 5507 to be hopefully as bug free as possible .

Onkyo is finally entering the 21st century and will be doing FW updates via the web for the new receivers and prepros. So future Onkyo owners will not have to depend on the kindness of a few AVS members to get FW updates .

Bill

What is the "DTS bitstream bomb"? And do you know what the latest firmwear issue is for the 885?

There are certain Blu-ray discs with DTS-HD Master Audio tracks that have a point in the disc where they will produce a frighteningly loud noise. It's unrelated to the audio track (the one I used to test my unit was in a quiet scene in The Fly). This noise became known as the "bitstream bomb" because it only happened when bitstreaming the audio (players that decoded DTS and output PCM didn't have the bug). As for the 885, I'd have to dig into the firmware thread at AVS to recall all the details of its current status.

To be clear, the fix for the "bomb" is not updating the firmware......I think the latest is 1.08 or 1.09. You need to update the DSP code which is more involved. As Gonk said, AVS has an Onkyo Firmware Upgrade thread that has all the info on it's first page. (AVP Requiem - Directors Cut also has the bomb)

Has anyone compared the features of the 997 to the 886? To my eyes, the 886 seems to be at least equal to the 997 and has several things the 997 does not. I don't know enough about the various processors used to be able to compare them, though - like do I care about a Silicon Optix Reon in the 997 vs. whatever's in the 886?

Do we have any compelling reason to wait for the 997 besides brand loyalty? The combo deals being offered are pretty impressive.

Thanks,

-Joe

Both use the Reon.

The 886 is extremely well-equipped from a feature standpoint. It is also a pretty darn nice-sounding piece of gear. Will the 997 sound better? Maybe. To my ear, the 990 (without room correction) compares remarkably well to the 885 (with room correction, albeit in a relatively well-behaved room acoustically). The 997 should retain some of the 990's sonic legacy, but add Trinnov. We have to have a chance to hear Trinnov to know just how good it can actually be, how much difference it might truly make.

My guess? Neither choice is a bad one. I expect to go with the 997 in part because my wife has never been a fan of the Onkyo's user interface or its slow signal acquisition times. Going back to an Outlaw should allow her to say farewell to a component she isn't fond of. I'm also curious to hear Trinnov, though.

I guess the biggest testament to the 886 that I can make (and I suspect that I would for the 997 as well) is that it simply disappears into the background during use - like every such device should.

As to Audyssey versus Trinnov... well I'm not using Audyssey in my 886. While it sounds different with it engaged, I can't say that it sounds better. I will be giving it another shot over the coming weeks. But my biggest problem with it (as implemented on the 886) is that you can't display before and after curves and you cant tweak the "after" - rather any manual calibration must start from scratch.

I'd say that the door is wide open for Outlaw to score a major victory in this category if Trinnov performs up to its advance billing AND they make it more tweaker-friendly than Audyssey is in the 886. I contend that the masses will buy a Trinnov-equipped receiver (972) and be happy to push one button (ie. "calibrate") and be done with it - whereas the enthusiast buys a pre/pro instead - and expects more control over his destiny.

Take the 886 (and Onkyo's failings) as an example. On the video side there is a TREMENDOUS amount of user adjustability and control. It's a calibrator's wet dream - and then some. Whereas on the audio side it's nothing but a bad case of coitus interruptous from a tweaking perspective!

With a name like Outlaw AUDIO, I expect that the Outlaws will get it right.

Those would both be a good reason to wait, at least for me. I've been with my 950 over 5 years, and I expect to have my next processor at least as long. I don't want to deal with annoyances like slow signal acquisition.

-Joe

Well a retailer in Northern NJ did an AV version cash for clunkers and I couldn't pass it up. I got an Integra DTR 8.9. I am a bit sad but the opportunity to move my old stuff get a good receiver and still get the Reon ISF video features (I have an RS2 that needs some calibration help). I loved the 886 deal with the 7125 but I got great value on my old equipment. I really wanted the 997 but the details on the video options are not clear enough for me to wait. Maybe some other time.

I've been doing a lot of thinking and talking with friends, and I have a 990 in my cart at the moment.

As nice as the HDMI switching would be, I don't think it's a deal-breaker for me. I'm perfectly happy with my 950, so I also don't think there are any features of the 997 that would really drive me to choose it over the 990. I can take the $700 I save and put it towards a Blu-ray player or PS3.

-Joe

Hi Gonk -
How slow are the signal acquisition times in comparison to the 990? The 970? I have the 970 and experience slow acquisition times, but wondering if I should expect faster in the 997. I know the 997 is yet to be determined.

Thank you!

I haven't used a 970 (which I understand offered acquisition times somewhere between the 950's fairly slow times and the 990's very fast times), but the times on the 885 are close to the 950. The 886 may have improved on the 885 in this regard, though, and of course the 997 is still a mystery.

Thanks Gonk! I'm only in my second generation of HT gear myself, so I don't have much to compare it to. I guess the 997 is slated to by my 3rd generation processor.

I am loving the Integra, the video processor tweaks are just awesome - particularly with cable. The Dynamic Volume is great as well and my wife is very happy about that. I am still sad that I couldn't pass-up the trade-in and get the Onkyo-Outlaw combo or the 997 but I am satisfied and those looking at the 886 will probably be as well.

Nostalgia wrote:
QUESTION: Is this slow video or audio acquisition. If audio, I would expect it to be digital, rather than analog.

I thought about the 886 for a long time. I decided that I would wait for the 997/Trinnov. And if it takes forever, that's ok because my 990 audio, especially analog is great. While I do play dts discs, they are decoded outboard and fed into 7.1 direct. So for me analog is paramount.
Still, I want to know what the saloon customers report about Trinnov when available.

Maybe the SALOON KEEPERS will give us a heads-up.