As an Outlaw fan and customer, and as an owner of an Onkyo 886, my initial reaction to this announcement is Wow!

I don't even have to read between the lines to know that this is a shrewd business decision on the part of the Outlaw's - for numerous reasons that will come up over the coming weeks.

This is a big win for both Outlaw customers and 886 owners.

Hoping to post lots more as I collect my thoughts - once the initial shock wears off!

Jeff Mackwood

That was surprising! As an 885 user, I'm going to be curious to check out this new guide...

Think they'll come up with a better price? Wouldn't mind buying from them as I am a loyal Outlaw customer, but not paying that much of a premium!

I've been anxiously awaiting the release of the 997, but getting a little restless and was thinking of starting to look around and see what else is out there in my price point. I've owned or own a 950, 970 and 990, and am looking forward to the 997. Then Outlaw goes and partners up with a competitor so as to provide us with an alternative to going elsewhere to get a new pre/pro now. That is a very shrewd thing to do. I commend you on showing loyalty back to your customers, while keeping them within the family. I don't yet know what I am going to do, but I am still anxious for the 997 to get released. I don't need a new processor, as my 990 and 970 (to a lesser extent) do everything that I need, I'm just restless to play with something new. I'll probably end up waiting for the 997, but I guess that I'll start reading up on the SC866 while waiting.

Jeff

This is really interesting. I'd been regularly reading about a few close competitors including the Integra/Onkyo line thinking--really--that if only Outlaw offered a pre/pro with the Onkyo's specs I'd be very quick to pull the trigger. The two missing features for me were the phono preamp and an HD tuner; my room is too small and well-designed for the room correction stuff to make a difference.

Time to make a really quick decision, but I haven't figured out what the downside might be. First step is reading the Outlaw guide. (Has anyone else tried to download the actual Onkyo manual? Doesn't seem to work, but I haven't tried very much.)

Mike,

As I mentioned in my other thread their server's running pretty slow right now. I managed to get a copy with a little patience. Trust me - it's well worth any wait!

Jeff Mackwood

They're offering better prices if you buy a bundle. Historically their prices have been pretty locked-in unless you bought a package deal of some sort, but you can always call or email and ask them - worst they can do is say "no."

Yeah, I have to say that I'm a little disappointed in the price of the 886. Onkyo must be close to at least announcing a replacement if they haven't already, so we'd be paying a premium for something that's almost reached the end of it's life cycle which some of us would really just be using as a hold over.

Shop Onkyo has not had the 886 refurbs on their site for a week or so. I wonder if this is part of the reason.

As an 886 owner, I wonder what features you think are just around the corner and worth waiting even longer for?

I guess I could see Trinnov being one - in which case the 997 will be it. But anything beyond that?

As far as I'm concerned the 886 is as full-featured as I can imagine any such piece of gear to be.

I think this is only about halfway through its life cycle - the 885 was out about 1.5 years before this one popped up...if past performance is an indicator etc etc

I wonder if they'll stop selling the Onkyo when the 997 comes out?

Hey, at least you can now find the 886 at a reputable online dealer.

Anyone know what the HDMI implementation on the 886 is like? My Denon takes 10 seconds to sync up, and I have to bypass it with my Mac because it won't present the Mac with a valid resolution that looks good.

Onkyo's European site has already announced a replacement.
http://www.eu.onkyo.com/press/press_release_en_8599753.html

Accessories4less is an authorized on-line Onkyo dealer that sells a refurbished 886 for $999.
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-s...ocessor-/1.html

Jeff Mackwood has one and can probably offer some insight on this. I will say that HDCP is a weird monster, and handshakes are affected by the entire signal path - not just a single component. My 885 isn't exactly a speed demon in this regard, but I don't know of any units that are what I'd call "quick" with HDCP.

As for the pricing question, I don't know if we have enough information on this to know if it's an issue of Outlaw picking a high price or Onkyo dictating terms. After all, both the VuduXL and the Velodyne SMS-1 are sold at prices set by the manufacturer, with discounts tied to bundles. Accessories4Less is selling refurbs. MarkerTek is selling new units at exactly the same price Outlaw is. Coincidence?

I have looked at the specs of the newest Onkyo and it is nothing for me to worry about for upgrading. It is rumored to be about $3000 (US) which is quite the premium.

The 886 still has features that the Outlaw 997 will not have (2 HDMI outputs, etc..) so it really depends what you want. The prices seems about right for a guaranteed new 886 from what I can tell from other places.

What features make the new one so much more?

I have the 885 and I think it is an excellent unit. The setup is a 7.1 system and the sound is crystal clear. I've never had any issues with the 885 or any of my equipment. We're running a 35' HDMI cable to the projector, a planar, and no problems.

For my other system I'm waiting on the 997. If Trinnov is as good as I hope, I'll probably put it in the big system. We have odd center channel placement - below the screen - which isn't great for row seating.

I have to correct myself on this one; I'd seen Onkyo's recent product announcements w/nothing about a successor, but apparently the unit has been unveiled in Europe already - the 5507. Looks like it will offer a few things over the 886:
-11 channel outs (adds 2 height & 2nd sub out)
-HQV reon-vx
-32 bit DACs
-PC DB15 RGb input
-USB input
-3 Add'l HDMI inputs
-Pro logic IIz/Audyssey DSX
-THX loudness plus/Audyssey dynamic EQ
-DLNA compatibility
-Network firmware updates
-Universal port for control of add on mods (ipod docks, etc)
-zone 2/3 HD (component) outputs

Not sure when this will be available stateside; price looks like it will be 33% than the 886 at launch.

oops!

The 886 already has Reon-VX, and I think it already has 32-bit DAC's, Audyssey Dynamic EQ, and component video output for zone 2.

The Analog RGB input, height channel pre-amp outputs, extra sub output, (3) extra HDMI inputs, PLIIz support, DLNA support, network firmware updates, USB, and iPod port are all new. I wonder if they'll all come over to the US?

Does Onkyo usually launch these products in EU ahead of US? It seems odd that this product - which is sold in EU sans rack ears and seemingly mainstreamed - is a niche item on this side of the Atlantic. Integra's available in EU, right?

I don't really know. Integra and Onkyo Pro focus on different markets - Integra is the upscale consumer line, while Onkyo Pro is meant for the commercial market. Neither EU nor US are Onkyo's home market, of course. Is there something similar to the 5507 available in Japan?

Integra's 9.9 is the closest, doesn't look like they have the Onkyo pro line. Oddly enough, the concept that never took off for Integra here is apparently a big deal over there - a lot of their products are based on the configurable pick-and-choose PCI card platform. I really loved that idea, but the up front cost was prohibitive (or at least appeared to be).

Card-based platforms never seem to get the long-term support they need to really be beneficial to the consumer. You end up with lots of choices among cards for that first generation, but then when technology starts changing you end up missing out because the R&D to support that technology gets put into the traditional receivers instead (likely because of cost).

Very true. If the tech had been embraced (as it apparently was in Japan), there would be a cost justification for developing cards that are compatible across a range of models instead of just one. Presumably you're looking at a steeper learning curve for owners, which runs counter to the idea of how an A/V component should work. Speaks to the culture of the Japanese that the line succeeds there.

Although I have not been waiting for the 997 as long as most of you, I have been watching the 'projected' release closely for the last 3 months. I was trying to decide between the Emo UMC-1 and the 997. Since neither was available, the first one to market was going to win.

I finally decided to the wait could be interminable for both units and ordered the 886 last Friday from A4L. It was delivered today.

I had to laugh last night when I received the email from Outlaw on the 886. I still think the 997 and the UMC-1 will be worth looking at but in the meantime I will have a really good pre/pro in my system. I will also have the benefit of the Outlaw documentation on the 886.

Nick

I have had no issues with HDMI connections with the 886. There is a very slight delay when switching between any two sources (for example when I switch between my HDMI-connected Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD PVR and my analogue-connected Sony RDR-HX900 DVD Recorder) but not to the point where it is an issue. My HDMI-connected Panasonic DMP-BD60 Blu-ray player gets picked up fast. My Optoma H78-DC3 HD projector locks on to incoming signals from the 886 no slower or faster that in does when they come in direct from the source.

And I should have mentionned that the Optoma projector has a DVI, not HDMI, input - and that I use both that connection and component video - again without issue.

I am completely disappointed. I have waited for almost a year (haven’t made a single post) for the 997 and have justified to myself time and time again why I shouldn't just ship. Even as I watched all the others jump, I stayed. I have to admit, I still want to continue waiting but Outlaw has to give us more than the vague e-mail they sent out. Send us a picture of what we are waiting for. I don’t want an Onkyo, if I did I would have bought it six months ago when I sold my 990. Outlaw, give me one reason (a glimpse of the processor) to continue waiting.

I with you on that. I would like one but not at that price.

There was an announcement of a price drop today. The price is now 1449.00. Now if we can just convince Outlaw to apply the 997 promotion ($200 off the 997 for any original 970/990 owners) to the 886. Many people who own the 990/970 are going to be looking for a new pre/pro and once they make that purchase they probably won't be buying for a little while at least. Applying the 990/970 original owners special might just be the thing to entice many people to buy. Besides, I think it would put it closer to what people are expecting to pay for the 997 ($1399.00 - $200.00 (original owner discount) = 1199.00 vs the $1449.00- $200 = 1249.00. Just a thought/suggestion though.

Why would Outlaw do that? I suspect their profit margin on the Onkyo isn't nearly as high as it is on Outlaw branded equipment. But (just to be devil's advocate) they are still charging $450 more than other online shops for the same unit...even with the new and improved pricing. And I'm sure those other places are making a profit, even at $999.

These are interesting times.

As mentioned, some of us will buy a new pre/pro or reciever for that matter and not purchase for few years. Many will buy from another company and be satisfied - therefore it is unlikely that they will buy the 997 just because they will get $200 off - they have what they need. Additionally, as you mentioned, there are other ID retailers selling the same unit for less money. If it were me, I would rather sell a hundred units with a small profit than sell a few with less profit. I agree with you, these are interesting times - fortunately, many have time to wait and see.

On another note, Axiom has a suggested price for the 972 - $2499.00 (Canadian dollars). With the dollar slowly lurching to being at par, this is far from any bargain. For slightly more money, the 886 or 997 (when released) plus a 7125 will be better money spent. Just a few thoughts regarding SN/Outlaw/Onkyo and Axiom. We will have to see what Emotiva brings to the market.

Has the R-972 ever had an actual MSRP listed? Based on the Axiom suggested price converted to U.S. dollars that's over $2300. Seems higher than I though I remembered seeing elsewhere, but then that very well might have been one of those places claiming they can sell you the R-972 when none were available. *eyeroll*

According to the latest update from Sherwood USA, the R-972 will be available in the USA on Sept.24th and in Canada a week or so later. The suggested Canadian price will be $2499.95.

Thanks again for your e-mail! If you would like me to me to follow-up directly by phone, just drop me a line with an appropriate time and a number for me to do so. Alternatively, you are always welcome to dial Axiom's toll-free number (1-866-244-8796) - any of our Audio Experts would be pleased to help.


Above is the reply I recieved when making an inquiry to Axiom. Unless we order from a U.S. company, we pay a premium for electronics. Sadly it is usually less expensive for us to order from places like Outlaw - pay the GST/PST/Shippping than buy from a Canadian retailer. I currently own a 7500, I can't imagine buying a 2505 from a retailer. We would still have to pay all the taxes and shipping plus the mark up. I can recall ordering a 1202, in the packaging someone also put the invoice from ATI for a number of thier products. The retailer cost was quite a difference between what the actual cost that ATI was charging.

I think the R-972's list price is $1800, but it's been a while since I saw that price.

According to on-line currency converters $2500 Canadian is a bit more than $2300 for U.S. currency. Dang! With a difference of some $500 I'd be highly tempted to either cross the Canadian/U.S. boarder if a retailer was close enough or use (If available) a certified S/N e-tailer. Might not be what the Canadian government would want, (I know my home states hate it when people buy on-line and don't pay sales tax.) but that's a pretty big difference. Yikes.

Border, not boarder. Gotta proof-read better.

Just finished running Audyssey on the 886. I took 6 readings before I hit the wrong button and it started calculating. Thats Okay. My Wife has a Big Christmas tree up. After Xmas I will run all positions and get serious.
But I am Happy with what it has done so far., It is amazing how far we have come over the years.