#81087 - 05/08/09 06:36 PM
997 vs.SN R-972
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Gunslinger
Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 48
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Since the 997 appears to be derived from the R-972 minus the amplifier section. What is the key differences between the 2. The price point seems to be pretty much the same thus what does the 997 offer that the 972 does not?
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#81090 - 05/08/09 10:22 PM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Gunslinger
Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 48
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On the price point I just noticed several web pages indicating:
Sherwood Newcastle R-972™ will be available for consumer market at MSRP of $1499 in August 2008.
If this is still true that would make the AMP section basically free of charge.
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#81091 - 05/09/09 12:51 AM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Desperado
Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 414
Loc: Virginia
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Originally posted by tps123:
On the price point I just noticed several web pages indicating:
Sherwood Newcastle R-972™ will be available for consumer market at MSRP of $1499 in August 2008.
If this is still true that would make the AMP section basically free of charge. Agreed. Balanced outputs are nice, but I think few people actually make use of them. Best,
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#81093 - 05/09/09 06:50 AM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Gunslinger
Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 247
Loc: FL
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Originally posted by Ritz2: Originally posted by tps123:
[b] On the price point I just noticed several web pages indicating:
Sherwood Newcastle R-972™ will be available for consumer market at MSRP of $1499 in August 2008.
If this is still true that would make the AMP section basically free of charge.
Best, [/b]I use the Balanced outputs on the 990 to my 7500 amp with MIT Oracle 3.2 XLR cables. I wouldn't go back to RCA.
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#81094 - 05/09/09 11:46 AM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Desperado
Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 500
Loc: Maine
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Balanced cables removed hum on the living room setup. I didn't have hum with 990-755 but did with 990-7700. Scott explained something (which I didn't understand) about "differential amps" vs. non-diff. Whatever !! Cured it. And I used some balanced mic cables from the recording days. One day I'll shorten them and "dress-out" the cables. Actually these were cables which I made up years ago, so no big deal to shorten...just time and interest, not necessity.
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#81095 - 05/09/09 01:36 PM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Desperado
Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 414
Loc: Virginia
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I would agree that if your room conditions or choice of equipment induce hum, then balanced cables come in handy. For the 3ft run between my 990 and 755, RCA connections are just dandy.
Nothing personal, but I just find it amusing that anyone would pay 1500-2000 per PAIR of balanced cables (MIT Oracle 3.2). That means the cabling between your 990 and 7500 exceeds the cost of the actual equipment (assuming you're using 5 channels) by a fairly wide margin. When I need balanced cables, I just roll my own out of Canare star quad mic cable and Neutrik XLR connectors. Perhaps I'm just in the wrong business. :-)
Best,
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#81096 - 05/09/09 02:49 PM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Gunslinger
Registered: 07/21/06
Posts: 164
Loc: Mission,BC
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That was a joke - right? People don't really spend $1500 for a pair of cables, do they? I can see $200 for a set, but $1500. I remember reading a review of 3 different speaker cables - the super expensive, the inexpensive and the the Home Depot extension cord. The results were not that surprising. All were 12 gauge and the reviewer had trouble justifying the high priced ones. So seriously, was that a joke?
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#81098 - 05/09/09 10:59 PM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Desperado
Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 414
Loc: Virginia
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Originally posted by nomoneybutgoodsound:
That was a joke - right? People don't really spend $1500 for a pair of cables, do they? I can see $200 for a set, but $1500. I remember reading a review of 3 different speaker cables - the super expensive, the inexpensive and the the Home Depot extension cord. The results were not that surprising. All were 12 gauge and the reviewer had trouble justifying the high priced ones. So seriously, was that a joke? List price for the cables he mentioned above (MIT Oracle 3.2) is about $3500/pair. I think it's a joke, but there are folks out there that apparently don't. If I had A few grand to spend on cables, I likely wouldn't be using Outlaw equipment (no offense).  Best,
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#81099 - 05/09/09 11:56 PM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Desperado
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
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Snake oil...Pure Snake oil!!
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#81100 - 05/10/09 01:15 AM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Desperado
Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 427
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Well said!
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#81101 - 05/10/09 07:56 PM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Desperado
Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 443
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
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I would be more certain I agreed with you if I'd actually heard A/B double blind comparisons of cables at different price levels. Not having done so - who has? - my most honest response is that I hope you're right. I have a term for claims beyond that: YBBI-talk (You Better Believe It).
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#81102 - 05/11/09 02:00 AM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Gunslinger
Registered: 01/19/06
Posts: 266
Loc: Tauranga, New Zealand
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Originally posted by psyprof1:
I would be more certain I agreed with you if I'd actually heard A/B double blind comparisons of cables at different price levels. Not having done so - who has? - my most honest response is that I hope you're right. I have a term for claims beyond that: YBBI-talk (You Better Believe It). This story fron Engadget always makes me laugh. We've always believed that the perceived quality boost that comes from using high-end cables is really just a trick of the mind (read: justifying the ridiculous cost of premium cables to yourself) -- if you've dropped enough cash, you can probably hear anything you want. Still, our belief is one thing -- cold hard proof is another, and it looks like a group of 12 self-professed "audiophiles" recently couldn't tell the difference between Monster 1000 speaker cables and plain old coat hangers. Yeah, coat hangers. The group was A-Bing different cables, and unbeknownst to them, the engineer running the test swapped out a set of cables for coat hangers with soldered-on speaker connections. Not a single one was then able to tell the difference between the Monster Cable and the hangers, and all agreed that the hangers sounded excellent. No wonder Monster has to rig HD displays. Still, we bet people still fall for the hype -- oh hey, if you're looking for the ultimate in sound, we've got half a meter of oxygen-free, triple-wrapped double-insulated Sonically Shielded AmpliSized Egyptian Llama cable here that we'll part ways with for just a couple grand.
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#81103 - 05/12/09 07:32 AM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Gunslinger
Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 247
Loc: FL
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Originally posted by Ritz2: Originally posted by nomoneybutgoodsound:
[b] That was a joke - right? People don't really spend $1500 for a pair of cables, do they? I can see $200 for a set, but $1500. I remember reading a review of 3 different speaker cables - the super expensive, the inexpensive and the the Home Depot extension cord. The results were not that surprising. All were 12 gauge and the reviewer had trouble justifying the high priced ones. So seriously, was that a joke?
Best, [/b]I had some older MIT MI-330 cables and "traded up". I purchased 1.5 pair (3 cables) of the Oracle 3.2 XLR for the front, and 1 pair (2 cables) of Shotgun S3 XLR for the surrounds. Then got the Z-Stabilizer for the power. Total price was under $2K. If it wasn't for the fact I was trading in my old cables (which was more than selling on eBay) and the new ones about 70% off MSRP, I wouldn't of purchased them. Say what you want, but with my B&W 804S/HTM3S speakers, I could hear a difference between them and the older MI-330 cables. All of the new cables have switchable impedance networks. They are set to low (which sounds best with the 7500), but can be set to medium or high for a different sound timber.
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#81104 - 07/15/09 12:13 PM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Gunslinger
Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 27
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Unfortunately this thread got hijacked and turned into a debate about cable quality. To get it back on its original track...
There is one other difference between the S/N R972 and the Outlaw 997: The R972 will have a dual mode (RF+IR) remote. The Outlaw info doesn't mention RF, so I assume its remote will be IR only.
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#81105 - 07/15/09 10:35 PM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Gunslinger
Registered: 07/15/09
Posts: 22
Loc: Pleasant Grove, Utah
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Hey all!
I too have been eagerly anticipating the 997's release which has been including keeping tabs on the R-972's progress and I found some interesting information on-line from a website called 'Projector Packages' and they list the R-972 available with an MSRP of $2242.89 and an 'in cart' price of $1835. Since there was discussion on the price of this receiver, I though I'd register and mention it here, FYI.
I was wondering if the site's claim of 'WE ARE THE ONLY AUTHORIZED ONLINE USA SHERWOOD NEWCASTLE DEALER' since I've seen Axiom sell Sherwood Newcastle products and thought they'd be authorized too. I also think the 'List price' seems rather inflated, but the 'add to cart' price seems to reflect what other people have suggested.
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#81106 - 07/15/09 10:37 PM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Gunslinger
Registered: 07/15/09
Posts: 22
Loc: Pleasant Grove, Utah
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#81108 - 07/16/09 03:14 PM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Gunslinger
Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 161
Loc: United States
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Wonder if they really are authorized if they're misstating the MSRP.
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#81109 - 07/16/09 03:29 PM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Gunslinger
Registered: 03/09/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Folsom CA
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So here is an interesting discussion point with regards to the new Trinnov Equalization. As I understand the R-972 manual, you can set the system for a flat response and it will somehow deal with the variation in the system (including amplifiers, cables and speakers). To some extent this should deal with he problem unless you have a set of horrible cables/amplifiers/speakers.
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#81110 - 07/16/09 03:31 PM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Gunslinger
Registered: 07/15/09
Posts: 22
Loc: Pleasant Grove, Utah
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Thanks Gonk, Yeah I remembered yesterday when I headed out to see 'Half-Blood Prince' that Axiom was in Canada. D'oh!  tkntz: Good point, especially if they're making claims on the MSRP that's apparently not accurate... by $400!
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#81111 - 07/16/09 05:09 PM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Gunslinger
Registered: 06/13/09
Posts: 27
Loc: Mountain View, CA
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digitalconnection.com in So CA is authorized.
"it will somehow deal with the variation in the system (including amplifiers, cables and speakers)."
That's what EQ does.
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#81112 - 07/17/09 01:44 AM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Desperado
Registered: 09/04/05
Posts: 358
Loc: Sanford NC
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The EQ is dealing with the sound as recieved at the microphone and correcting that. it doesn't need to deal with amps and cables ect individually.
Problem is, it only flattens it out, it doesn't improve it, so it won't make up for inferior components.
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#81113 - 07/17/09 01:45 AM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Gunslinger
Registered: 07/15/09
Posts: 22
Loc: Pleasant Grove, Utah
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Well, it looks like I found a rather fishy etailer, huh? Claims of the only SN authorized retailer in the U.S, misinforming the MSRP price, selling above the actual MSRP and now a distributor over at the AVS message forum says it'll be two weeks before they become fully available, and this place says they have them now. *rolls eyes* And here I hoped I had helpful info... *sheepish grin* Well, I guess I did; an etailer to be wary of. Not saying they're gonna rip anyone off, just... shady. Well, personal Kudos to Outlaw for being such a great and _honest_ etailer. I know from personal experience, being a very happy and very satisfied owner of a 7125 amp. 
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#81114 - 07/17/09 06:42 AM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Gunslinger
Registered: 06/13/09
Posts: 27
Loc: Mountain View, CA
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"it only flattens it out, it doesn't improve it, so it won't make up for inferior components. "
If it smooths the response speakers w/bumpy response, I'd call that an improvement.
But the room is going to make the response more uneven than decent speakers, and that's why it's often called room correction instead of EQ.
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#81115 - 07/24/09 07:13 PM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Gunslinger
Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 36
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The real MSRP for the Newcastle 972 is $1800. Some real dealers have indicated they are willing to discount. I do not yet know what the lowest real price is.
Places online claiming the MSRP is $2200 or something like that are BS places. They also claim to have 972's "in stock" when they really don't.
I would be curious if the Outlaw 997 has any Trinnov setting output (like to your PC to see what the processor is doing) or adjustment features that the 972 does not.
Oh, and MANY people claim they can hear the difference in expensive cables -- but despite many double blind tests online and in print I've never, NEVER, seen one where someone with a "golden ear" has been able to correctly identify the cables in a real double blind test.
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#81116 - 07/24/09 07:39 PM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Deputy Gunslinger
Registered: 09/25/06
Posts: 7
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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I am not making any statements about the website referenced above, claiming to have the SN 972 in stock. I am always a bit cautious when it comes to online retailers unless they are well known and have a proven track record. However, I believe the MSRP that they are stating includes a plethora of interconnects. I come up with 11 cables including 5 HDMI cables. I have no idea what those cables are really worth and I imagine most people would prefer to buy their own cables anyway, but I am guessing that is why the MSRP they are showing is $400 above the 972 MSRP. I do have to question whether they have any in stock though.
Matt
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#81117 - 07/25/09 08:50 PM
Re: 997 vs.SN R-972
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Gunslinger
Registered: 07/15/09
Posts: 22
Loc: Pleasant Grove, Utah
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Ah yes, now that I look again I notice they do mention an 'interconnect bundle' included with the receiver which is fine if you either don't have the cables or you want to upgrade. On the other hand you very likely might get a better deal on the cables elsewhere if you look around.
Personally I'm happy with what I've got and if I need more I'd go to Blue Jeans Cable anyway. I can't say I've ever heard 'better sound' from a different cable myself so I can't see upgrading my current cabling.
Personally if I was ready and wanted the R-972 I'd be calling them first to see if they actually had the product in stock. I hate to wait some unknown number of weeks for it to arrive despite they're statement of 'in stock'.
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