I sorry, I caved in...

Well, I did it. I went to the dark side and brought a competitors product. You know who she is, the was she taunts you,along with her evil twin sister. I won't pour salt into the wound. I couldn't wait any longer for the 997. It's not that I was unhappy, I mean we had some good times. It..it's not you, it's me..

(sigh)...

I tried to get some therapy, but that damn HDMI, DTS-MA and the way she pranced her REON display all over the place put me in a trance. I thought I was out of her league, but she just persisted. How could I resist..I am weak, weak ..wea...

Actually, I got a really good deal that was comparable to what a new 997 would be and I got the satisfaction of instant gratification. This is not a knock on Outlaw performance or quality. I still have an Outlaw amp and I would still recommend Outlaw to anyone. So I put my 990 up for sale on the evil Deathstar auction thingy

Forgive me my brothers...

It's OK, we forgive you.

Gotta wonder how many sales Outlaw keeps losing as the 997 introduction keeps getting delayed. A certain mfg whose name starts with "O" is now on their second gen HDMI prepro.

I'm sure it's something they're well aware of, but the alternative (releasing a product that's still not done) is worse. And the second-gen of that "O" processor is not significantly changed from the first-gen.

I for one am willing to set it out till outlaw comes through. i missed out last time and will not repeat that mistake. I am sure that for those of us who do wait our patience will be rewarded.

I'm hoping it'll be worth the wait too. My 950 has stopped responding to the remote so I'm in definite need of an upgrade!

-Joe

I too have lost battle... I have a new Integra piece sitting where my beloved 990 once was. Sorry Outlaw, you tempted me too soon with that original email last year and i just could not wait. If it's worth anything I still have my Outlaw amp!!

Sorry, I couldn't wait any longer either...went with the other "O". Still waiting on the Oppo BDP-83, but I think that will be a lot shorter wait than the 997. Good Luck to you guys for sticking it out!! :-)

Another jumper here. Sorry Outlaw. I took the plunge to a "D" receiver last Oct. which I use as a pre/pro only to feed my 7700. When I realized the 997 was based on the SN R-972 and that unit was first announced at CES in Jan. 2007 but still hadn't seen the light of day almost 2 years latter I gave up hope and bought a proven product that had been out over a year.

After hooking up blu ray to the 990 analog inputs my need for the 997 diminished substantially. I can wait a lot longer.

I too went with an Onkyo 9.9. I'm still curious too see how the 997 turns out though.

I'm in capital preservation mode right now so there's no hurry for me. My audio upgrade plans for the year are the BDP-83 and the 997.

Rob

How have you liked it? I'm still on the fence on which pre pro to get. The ones on my short list are the 990 and 997 of course, along with that integra 9.9 and the marantz 8003.

A local high end dealer that carries the 9.9 will be having a special family pricing invitation only sale next week where that 9.9 will be available for a better price than normal. I should probably make up my mind before then.

I spent most of the evening reading through various AVS forums on the DHC 9.9 . After also reading through the outlaw forums over the last week or so, one conclusion I can make is that Outlaw is far superior in giving tech support and warranty work than is Onkyo.

One more important item to add to the decision making task. I think if the 997 was available now, my decision would be cut and dried.

Yeah, I won't buy another Onkyo pre-pro. And from what one friend has told me, the 9.9 does not do two channel very well.

If the 997 was available now, it would have been a no brainier for me as well. Like most of you, I have nothing but the highest praise for the equipment and the few times I had to contact Outlaw support, I was never disappointed.

However, Outlaw has it's hands tied with being at the mercy of SN. I understand the delay for the product and can only pray that the end result lives up to the hype. In the mean time, I went with the Onkyo 886 and it has performed flawlessly so far. The fact that I got it at a price that was comparably to what the new 997 would have cost me on it's introduction is what sealed it for me. So for now, I am enjoying the full updated audio codecs, video processing and the Audyssey which works well in my small HT.

I am looking forward to the introduction of the 997 and the early reviews. we just don't know when it will be and I need to move on to other things at this time. For those that can stay strong, I commend you, I tried, but I couldn't pass this one up...

Outlaw can take as long as they need to get it right. I for one don't want a half baked pre-pro just because others are on the street. Another facet is how long the Onkyo, Denon and Marantz warranties are and what response you get when you need it.

We do live in a microwave society. We all want whatever the latest thing is and we want it now. It is frustrating that a product that was supposed to be released by early January 2009 may not be offered prior to the 3Q of 2009. Impatience often leads to poor decisions. I've learned that with other purchases I've made in the past. Why settle for something that is less than what you hoped for only because you couldn't wait?

I've heard some suggest that this product will be obsolete by the time it moves to market. That is somewhat obsurd. From year to year, the "D's" and "O's" of the world just re-package their existing platforms without offering any real improvements to the products. There are no other products that offer Trinnov. There will be no other products (save the S/N R-972) that will offer Trinnov prior to the 997. Its not like there is some other great new innovation coming in the next year to make the 997 obsolete. Maybe you don't care about Trinnov. That's fine.

As for me? I will wait. To each his own.

All very valid points to be sure. There are many factors that go into purchasing decision. The warranty factor is not number one on my list, but it is still up there. Of course a long term or lifetime warranty isn't worth much if the company isn't around to service it. No, I am not implying that Outlaw is in trouble, but I do recall having bought a set of Genesis II+ Speakers in the early 80's that had a lifetime warranty. They are no longer around, so I had to fix them at my expense. I do fear for technological innovation in the current state of the world economy. I guess a lot of product lines will be playing it close to the vest until things improve.

The other side of the coin is that things change so rapidly that everything that is produced and on the market is obsolete anyways. I bought a Blu ray and now question that move based on the evolving video market. In my case, I am enjoying the new prepro now and that is what counts. Workarounds work to a point, otherwise there would be no need for innovation or the updating existing products.

Besides, I have a 2 year warranty on my prepro and I would surmise that in that timeframe, a better product may emerge anyways. I only had my 990 for 2 years and now it will be in the hands of a new owner soon.

My timer expired on waiting for the 997 because the alternative became a viable alternative. That is all it is.

Who knows. I may still get one if the planets all get in line the right way for me in the future.

Until then, I will enjoy the music while I can...

According to the sales guys at Sherwood Newcastle, their R972 product (which is the basis for the Outlaw product...although it's a receiver, not just a pre/processor) isn't going to be available until sometime in April. So I'll hazard a guess and say that we won't see the 997 until May/June.

So I'll probably give my old 990 to my folks and either get the Sherwood R972 when it becomes available (and use it with my existing Outlaw 755 amp until I've got the money/energy to upgrade that too) or just bite the bullet now and get something from either "O" or "D". I need more digital video inputs.

Sorry, I couldn't remember my old password so I created a new userID.

Cheers,

Ritz

Actually, I think the 997 was supposed to be released at least a year ago, until they had to essentially start the design process all over again.

Do you have a source for your 3Q release date?

Yes, Outlaw said in an earlier update that they couldn't/wouldn't release their product until AFTER Sherwood released the R972 to the public. I contacted Sherwood today and they told me the R972 should show up sometime in April. I added a month or two to that to give Outlaw some time to fondle their design based on final changes at Sherwood. So it's nothing official, just me piecing together bits of info. This isn't really Outlaw's fault, but it shows some of the pitfalls of rebadging/re-engineering someone else's design when that other design isn't even in production.

Best,

That's why they usually don't say anything until the product is ready to ship.

We knew they had to be developing something a while back, but the first official word of the 997's planned existence was last October (four or five months ago), and that didn't promise a specific delivery date beyond "at or after the first of the year."

This comes from the 9/18/08 announcement:

This is from Peter's February 12th post:

Using "sometime in April" (I posted before that quote, so I was just guessing based on prior comments indicating sometime after March) and adding 60 days, I come up with sometime in June, but I assume there may be a few bumps in the R-972 launch that may push the 997 into 3Q 2009. Call it a mosaic, but that is how I came up with my comments.

well..I did it...actually I did two "it's". A few days ago I bought a DHC 9.9 for my main system . I would have loved to wait for the 997 but I was feeling the need for some instant electronic gratification. I love it and it's a huge improvement over the 10 year old HK Signature 2.0 it replaced.

But...just a few minutes ago I also ordered a new outlaw 990 for my living room system. I have an old HK signature 2.0 in there as well with a Threshold s500e amp and Magnepan 1.6QR speakers. After hearing the improvement in sound that the 9.9 made in my main system, I knew I would never be happy with the HK in the living room again.

Good power amps from 10 or 20 years or more ago are still every bit as good as what's out there today, but the preamp/processors have made leaps and bounds inprovements. They just sound better.

The HDMI capabilities of the 997 are not important to me in my living room system, because I really don't use that system for video much at all. It has a monitor and full 5.1 channel surround equipment, but it's not where I watch movies. That system is all about music and the 990 should be just what the doctor ordered for that application

Outlaw ships fast. I just got an email from them with my fed ex tracking number. It took them just a few hours after my order on line to send my 990 out the door.

Good job guys... I'll be waiting by my front door until I hear that delivery truck pull up.

Scott

Yup, when they have things in stock, they're johnny-on-the-spot with shipping. They're also pretty fast about shipping out replacement parts/products.

I just wish they'd get out of the habit of exceptionally long delays between new product announcements and eventual product availability. That has been an issue for years now.

Best,

I've been waiting since october 07 for 997. I had the 990 in my hands and decided to send it back and thats simply because the 990 sounded so much better then my onkyo, that I knew outlaw would make 997 something worth waiting for. My plans are for the 997 to be part of my system for a while and those of you that can't wait a few more months just blows me away. What the outlaw family has to offer is simply worth waiting for and those of you that had to deal with warranties or repairs from the other companies know what I'm talking about.
Ramon.

You're a very patient man. Personally, I buy a new product when I need it, not when a salesman promises me they think their product will be available "soon" and that I "should wait." The 997 looks like it will be a nice product. If they are available when I make my next purchase, I'll consider it. If not, I'll buy something else. No biggie.

I've run out of digital inputs on the 990 and I don't want to kludge in another hdmi switcher so I suspect the 997 will be late for my party. Sigh...

Best,

Ritz2.
They didn't promise me anything at any specific date or time but told me that they were working on a new product. They didn't have to say anything about the new product but they did so I think that was pretty cool. Thats great that you can buy a product when you need it, i wish i could do that.
Ramon

Like most technology products, the latest audio/video gadget is always going to be better/cheaper/faster with more features if you are in constant "I'll wait for the next iteration" mode. Better for your sanity if you just draw a line in the sand and pick what works for you when you actually need that particular product.

I thought I'd weigh in here, as well. I recently replaced my 990 with a Cary Cinema 11a.

The Cary is a considerable upgrade in audio quality and price point (!). The Cary sounds fantastic, but then it should for its price. It has exactly the feature set I need - it's an audio only processor that decodes all of the latest HD formats. I'm already using a separate video processor (DVDO Edge), so an audio-only processor was a good fit for me.

However, the Cary 11a has been buggy from the beginning. It's finally reached a point (with FW 1.04) where it is stable and the intended functionality actually works. I was watching the AVS thread closely to see when the 11a would be ready for prime time before making my purchase. Even so, there are some smaller problems that still remain to be cleaned up.

And the Cary is not the only new high-end processor that has had major problems and has required multiple firmware updates to function correctly.

This is an area where I believe Outlaw really excels. Outlaw would never release a product this buggy. So, with the delay you are going to get a product that functions as it should right out of the box on the first shipment. And THAT is priceless. :-)

-Brent

I sure hope you're right, but I think the reason the 997's release keeps getting delayed is that they are simply waiting on Sherwood. Now, is Sherwood still in the 'debugging' stage? Or have other factors delayed it?
If the 997 'functions as it should right out of the box', it'll be the first HDMI prepro to do so. Let's hope so.

Audessey DSX systems are already out! Integra is going to have their 3rd iteration of a HDMI 1.3 pre/pro out soon...

I'm still waiting on the 997. Wow, look at my member number! Talk about being a serious lurker, and non poster! LOL

...back to the shadows....

Hi guys, I have to admit I gave up on the 997 and bought an Onkyo Pro 885 with the Audyssey EQ / processor. It is an excellent product and will put the Model 997 to the market test quick.

If any of you guys have any doubts about what this room DSP stuff can do - read Kal R's columns in Stereophile - he is right on. This processor has made the biggest difference in my system of anything else I have done - and this is coming from an old analog guy.

My old system consisted of a Sony ES E9000ES and P9000ES with a Sony SACD player and a Pioneer Elite DVD-V / A player played direct through the P9000ES analog preamp to three Hafler Transnova amps and a 5.1 Vandersteen set-up.

Cut to the chase, even on 5.1 SACDs, the Onkyo Pro is BETTER, principally because it eliminates several nodes and anti-nodes in the room that I was living with and never realized I could get rid of !! (In a completely symmetric, purpose-built room with excellent acoustics). And with HDMI digital hook-up, I got rid of about 10 miles of expensive Kimber wire and several gain stages. I'm telling you, this technology is a great leveler of rooms and loudspeakers and will prove to be a game-changer.

If the Trinnov works in the Model 997 as well as the Audyssey works in the Onkyo Pro, you guys are in for a treat.

Glad to hear you love the Onkyo Pro 885 - since I just placed an order for an Onkyo PR-SC886!

Jeff Mackwood

Wow. There is a company selling these online for $999. The feature set is very similar to the Sherwood/Outlaw pre-amp with the exception of using Audyssey rather than Trinnov room correction (and the fact that they are available for sale now...hehe). I think with the integration of so much digital goodness into commodity chips, the higher end audio market is going to turn into a real horse race with consumer prices benefiting substantially. Kinda like computer prices plummeting when all of the major suppliers began using the same basic bin of parts to create their product lines.

Best,

I've been pretty pleased with my 885, but my wife really dislikes it and wishes we still had the 990. (Her main pet peeve is signal acquisition for audio and video, both of which are rather slow on the 885). I'm going to be curious to hear Trinnov when the opportunity permits, as I've found Audyssey to be of only subtle benefit in my room.

And that's a good point Gonk: not every room / speaker system will need a huge "improvement."

Remember I'm the guy who thought his SMS-1 was broken - until he figured out it wasn't doing anything because his in-room response was already perfect without it!

My move to a next-gen pre/pro is about getting an up-to-date feature set - in many ways. Audyssey will be nice to try out, and I suspect it will invoke only subtle changes, but the 886 has lots more to like about it.

And the Model 950 that it will replace? Turns out I've got enough spare amps and speakers (and an LCD flat panel) kicking around to assemble a fairly decent 5.1 system. Just might convert an upstairs room into a third HT!

And had the 997 not been made in China...

Gonk:
How about posting a review of the '885 on your website? These are still available as refurb's for WELL under $1K.

I'll likely discuss it some in conjunction with the Model 997 when I review the 997 (which I do expect to get to replace the Onkyo, since my wife dislikes the 885). I don't know that I'll have time to write a standalone 885 review any time soon, though.

The new Onkyo 886 should arrive within a week - just about the time when I take off work for a month so I'll have lots of time to integrate it into my system and check out its features.

Ended up getting it for $1443 - plus $107 for shipping.

Buying with my conscience, rather than my wallet, really cost me very little extra in this case.

Nice. I'm not certain, but I believe the 886 is manufactured in Malaysia (or at least assembled there). I know what you mean about China. I've lived and worked in China for a number of years and now that I'm back in the US, I'm doing my best to avoid buying Chinese products myself. It's not always possible, but you do what you can. I also realize that a lot of people just don't care and would prefer to see cheaper products. Different strokes.

I will, of course, consider future products from Outlaw, but not those such as the upcoming 997 that are made in China.

Best,

Not sure yet what I'm going to replace my Onkyo receiver with yet, and the time frame will depend on when the BD83 is available for purchase. If you plan on selling your '885, I might be interested.

I'll keep that in mind. In the meanwhile, if you want a BDP-83, go here - it will get you on the interest list, and they are offering invites to everybody on that list before they add the player to their order page for general distribution.

I already registered with them, and I've got a few emails. I declined to buy one of the pre-production units, but I hope they will notify me when the first of final product is available.

Within the last few weeks I've started seeing more low cost BD players at Wal-Mart and Costco, and the prices of BD movies has also started to drop (and some nice collections are now available.. such as a boxed set of the first 6 Star Trek movies). So I'm more interested in getting a BD player now than a few months ago.

I downloaded the BD83 user manual, and it DOES look like a VERY nice machine. I currently have the DV981HD, and I'm very happy with it. I hope the BD83 will play all the computer media files (mp4, mp3, ogg, jpeg, etc) that the DV981HD does so well.

Kscharf.

I am a happy owner of a BD83 and followed the discussion forums on this player from when it was just a rumor. The units being sold now are the final production units. As is OPPO style they will continue to refine the firmware and issue updates. There really isn't a reason to wait.

Instead of accepting all orders and then disappointing buyers with a backorder situation they are using the registration of interest and subsequent invitation to buy e-mails as a method of rolling out the product in an orderly manner. From what I've read, current invitations are being sent out within a few days of registering.

I think this is a lot like a new restaurant opening and you have to put your name on a list at the door. Right now there is a 5 minute wait for your table. Are you really planning to come back another day when you can be seated immediately?

Ken, the EAP is over. Final product is available now and has been for at least a month. If you get on the interest list, the player you get will be final hardware running production firmware. The only reason you can't go to their site and simply order one is the high level of demand - they are working through the interest list as fast as inventory allows.

I've been on the list for several weeks now, and I've not heard anything, so I'm guessing it's a big list by now.

Anyone know the price?

$499

I really want to read the Onkyo/Integra vs Outlaw 997 review(s).

I've been using the Oppo BD83 for about a month. Flawless operation to this point.

I intend to continue to wait for the 997. I ordered the Oppo BD83 May 30, it was shipped May 31, I received it 4 days later (snail mail). It plays flawlessly, so far. I haven't tried every audio or video format yet, but so far so good.

Well I signed up AGAIN on Oppo's website since I haven't heard back from them since the beta cycle ended. If I get to actually buy a BD83 by the end of the summer the latest Star Trek movie might be out on BD by then. That would be nice!

You'll have one before the end of the summer.

Been living with the new Onkyo PR-SC886 for a few days now. Absolutely no regrets - although it was a somewhat saddening experience to remove my venerable and trusty Outlaw Model 950 from the place it has sat in my gear shelves for what seems like forever. I really need to get it back into service somewhere - likely in a third HT room that I'll set up in one of our now-spare bedrooms.

I've been posting a more detailed set of experiences with / initial impressions of the Onkyo 886 over on the S&V Forums. It has a few functionality issues. While all gear does, it will be neat to see how it and the Model 997 stack up in that regard.