Hey all,

I have been a happy 990/7700 owner for 2 years or so. I use 2 displays, 1 is a 50 inch 1080P TV, more for gaming for the kids, another is a 100 inch screen off a panny LCD 1080P projector. My rack consists of;
Outlaw combo 990/7700
Cable box, BD player, PS3, Xbox 360, Nintendo Wii, HD DVD player, CD player and a 4 X 2 Keydigital component switcher.
The setup now is;
Cablebox hdmi to 50 inch tv, component to 990 then proj.
BD player hdmi to DVI 990 then proj
Xbox component to 990 then tv and proj
PS3 component 990 then to tv and proj
Nin wii comp to tv and proj
HD comp to tv
CD to 990
I will not get into the way it is all run nto the Key digital etc. BD came later on.
Just wondering what benefits I would have purchasing the 997 vs purchasing a 4 X 2 hdmi switcher? If I used a 4 X 2 hdmi switcher, I could run cablebox, ps3, xbox, bd all into switcher, then out to tv and proj. The other equipment into the 990 componnent and out to tv and proj. Just wondering what everyones thoughts are on this? Thanks again to all!!!!!
Brian

In other words, what will be the major differences I will be seeing/hearing going from the 990 to the 997 and is it worth it to spend the extra $.
Thanks.

As I see it, the 997 offers 3 advantages over a switcher/990.
1. Equalization,room correction
2. Video processing, upscaling ( this might be covered by your blue ray player)
3. Audio processing for new audio formats via HDMI( here again, this may be handled by your blue ray player and passed to the 990 via multi-channel analog.

You could potentially notice an improvement in the picture coming out of your cable box. Some HDTV's don't do a very good job of presenting 480i signals on a 1080p screen. The 997 will scale all such video to 1080p. Just depends on how well your TV/projector accomplishes this task. My TV is horrible with standard definition.

Don't forget the sound. How are you transporting the sound from your BD & HD-DVD players to your 990? If you're using coax or optical you're not getting the new lossless audio formats Dolby TruHD or DTS Master Audio. The only way to get those to your 990 is through multi-channel analog outputs from the back of your disc players to the 990. The 997 will simplify this by using the HDMI cable to transport the sound signal of the new formats.

I must confess that I cannot give personal testimony to the improvements these new formats provide. My PS3 does not have analog outs. This is why I'm waiting for the 997.

Please forgive the redundancy of my post. I started to write this before KOYAAN posted, but got busy doing something else!

Thanks for the education guys. I just purchased the pioneer 51FD which does have the analog outputs, i have yet to hook it up that way as I was going to wait for the 997, but...Is it worth it to spend over a grand when I can use the upscaler in my BD player, use the 7.1 off the 990 and get a 4 X 2 HDMI switcher.
Hmmm, something to think about I guess.
Thanks.

It's all a balancing act, certainly. The video processor is most likely to be useful for non-HD sources, particularly things like cable or satellite TV broadcasts or other SD sources. Those sources normally rely on either the TV's scaler or scalers built into cable/satellite receivers, and aside from some really good TV's out there the results of this sort of video processing are routinely underwhelming. Of course, if you don't already have a TV with a good internal scaler, you could go with something like a DVDO Edge video processor for $500 and keep the 990 alongside the Pioneer 51FD, at which point the only significant feature from KOYAAN's list that is absent is equalization / room correction.

vp8000
I am in a similar thought process. I have the 990/7700 combo and I am very happy with there performace. I purchased the 990/7700 at the Los Angeles Home Theater show for a steal. The 990's video processing and the marriage with my Infocus 7205 projector has been rated by my friends between good to outstanding on Blu-Ray. My SD are between very good to great. I have always believed that with standard DVD's besides the processing in any unit, receiver or other it is also the quality of the video and audio transfer when making the final product.
I have my Sony 550 hooked up using the multi-channel outputs. My projector is not 1080p but rather 1080i. The picture and sound are super.
The sacrifice that I had to make was giving up the availabilty of the SACD format on my Sony 777. With that being said I was considering an investing in a good switcher.
While I was very interested in the 997 and also the Integra 9.8 (still remain a loyal Outlaw, would never have purchased the 9.8) I am wondering HOW MUCH BETTER MY VIDEO AND AUDIO would be with the 997.

Frank

You guys have all made such valid points that it does become a very tough decision at this point. Even if I do go with the 997, i will still need a 1 X 2 switcher and will the end justify the means, $$$$.

Question. I am using the analog inputs for the audio on the 990 with my Sony's 550 blu-ray player.
Would I get the same quality of sound using HDMI.
I was thinking about buying a HDMI to DVI adaptor for the 990 and reconnecting the analog to my Sony 777 for SACD.
If I could do this I would not have to invest in a switcher for audio.
Sound quality is important and I do not want to sacrifice the importance of sound.
Anything that I have read says that HDMI is the ticket for both audio and video.
Does any Outlaw have this setup.?
Can it be done? I think it would work but I am concerned about the audio for my movies.

Anyone???
Thanks

Using an HDMI to DVI adapter will let you pass video through the 990, but it won't deliver audio. For that, you need either the multichannel analog connection or a digital audio cable (coaxial or optical). If you switch back to using the multichannel analog for your SACD player, you will lose the lossless audio formats (TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio, and good ol' multichannel PCM). That will result in a sacrifice in sound quality.

Thanks Gonk,
So am I correct in saying that if I want the best of both worlds SACD and TrueHD I need a switch.
Any recomendations?

The only 7.1 switch I know of is the Zektor that we've talked about previously. The MAS7.1 is "only" $600, which is either the same price as the BDP-83 or $100 more (the EAP price for the BDP-83 came in at $499 and there's no word on whether that will hold for the official launch). The last time I suggested someone try a component video switch like this one as a 5.1 switch they found that the output levels from the component pathway (which would provide three of the six audio channels) didn't match the levels from the stereo analog and coaxial digital pathways (which provide the other three channels), at which point you would need to use two of those switches (each offering three channels via the left, right, and coaxial connections) to achieve effective 5.1 switching. To do 7.1, you need to either run rear surrounds from the Blu-ray player straight to the 990 (skipping the switching) or add a third switch box. After that debacle, I don't know of a third alternative that I trust.

There's also nfaguy's patchbay route, but it's not the best fit for everyone.

I guess you can see why I tend to recommend folks hold out for the BDP-83 when they want SACD, DVD-A, and Blu-ray with a non-HDMI processor...

You can build a switch from one of gold points selector switches. You would just need a case, rcas, and hookup wire.
http://www.goldpt.com/prices.html

I am collecting the parts for building a six channel passive preamp using one of their switches and attenuator.
http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=545

Thanks everyone!
Frank

I currently have an Onkyo '720 receiver. At the time I was on the fence between a mid to high end receiver vs one of Outlaws pre-pros. Both the 1070 and 970 units had many reports of problems that may or may not have been fixed in software. The 990 was a bit more expensive back then.

I still haven't gone blue ray, I'm still waiting for Oppo's new unit to get reviewed (I have one of their DVD machines and love it). Still there is the price difference between DVD and BD software. Blue ray won't catch on till the disks get cheaper.

Since my receiver doesn't handle HDMI (or even DVI) all my video switching is done in the TV (it has 4 hdmi inputs and two component). The Oppo's video processing is better than what the TV and most receivers provide. My HD cable box goes component to the TV (though there is a DVI option).

I'm happy with my current setup, if I were to upgrade it almost seems like the 990 would be enough. The 997 would be able to perform all the video switching, but I seem not to really need it (all I lose is the on screen display from the receiver/pre-pro). The 997 also loses the phono input for what that's worth (I DO use my turntable now and then).
Looks like I might only have a few months left to decide on this, don't know how much longer the 990 will be in the product line. Only problem is that the way the economy is right now I probably won't replace anything that ain't broken.

I don't know if you've seen it, but the EAP for the BDP-83 allowed me to post my review . It's still getting refined (need to add DVD-Audio support and take care of some last bugs), but it's close. And unless your current DVD player is the 983H, the BDP-83 will give you a nice upgrade on picture quality with DVD's.

Gonk

I am in a similar situation, I purchased the Panny BD-55 BD player about three months ago and am enjoying the new lossless codecs thru the 990's analog inputs.

The sacrifice.....I have not listened to any of my cherised SACD and DVD-A via my Marantz DV-9500 DVD player for the same amount of time. (my cables are tricky to get at so I am too lazy to swap them out)

So I too am anxiously awaiting the arrival of the 997.

My question is: do you think the new Oppo BD player would upconvert standard DVD's better than my Marantz and/or improve the BD quality as well over the Panny?

I believe that the Marantz does an excellent job with DVD's however after reading several threads on the Oppo being the best DVD player out there,I am indeed curious how the Marantz vs Oppo would play out for standard DVD's?

I could save some $$ (half the cost... $600 for new Oppo vs $1200 for new 997) by buying the new Oppo, keeping the 990 and have the best of both worlds...providing the new Oppo will indeed play DVD-A.

Your thoughts

Thanks in advance

The beauty of the DVD-A format is it IS the DVD format. Any standard DVD compatible player SHOULD play it. I've only seen one DVD-A not play and it was in a friend's Pioneer Elite DVD player. The same DVD-A played in my old Sony DVD player and my new Samsung BD-P1600.

As for me...for future compatibility and convenience (I'm tired of hitting the TV source button to get the HDMI for my BD-P1600) bring on the 997 so I don't have to manually switch anymore.

I skimmed a review of the Marantz. It seemed pretty complementary, but the lineage of the BDP-83's DVD performance is hard to argue against. If I had to predict a winner, I'd come down in favor of the BDP-83. I think that barring a setup mistake, there should be no reason for the BDP-83 not to at least equal the Marantz. It would probably even exceed it, although we're probably getting into the domain of diminishing returns so I wouldn't guarantee something totally mind-blowingly better.

As for Blu-ray performance from the BD55 versus the BDP-83, in theory there shouldn't be any apparent difference. Both should simply "get out of the way" and pass the HD signal cleanly.
Yes, and no. Yes, a DVD-Audio disc may play on a standard DVD player, but unless it supports DVD-Audio (which includes neither the Samsung BD-P1600 nor any Sony product ever built) you will not get the losslesss audio offered by DVD-Audio's MLP. That means you're missing out on the main reason that DVD-Audio exists. To really play DVD-Audio and get the benefit from it, you need a player with DVD-Audio support. The BDP-83 has that support with the current EAP firmware, although it's still pretty rough around the edges. I expect the next round of EAP firmware to improve matters in that regard.

So I guess this great sound is only 5.1 channel Dolby Digital. Damn...learn something everyday. Thanks for the correction. I haven't seen a new DVD-A disk for sale for a year or more so I guess this format is totally dead? Doesn't sound like I need to rush out and get a new player just for it (I only have a handfull)?

The format is largely dead, although there are still some new releases popping up from time to time.

Some DVD-A discs have quite good DTS tracks on the DVD-V layer, but it's really not as good as what true DVD-A can be.