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#80466 - 10/10/08 11:35 AM Active crossover in 997?
Javachip Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 15
Loc: San Diego CA
The Trinnov pro-grade product has active 2, 3, or 4 way crossover functionality. The 997 description does not mention any such feature, so I assume the 997 does not have it. If the 997 did have a built-in active crossover, it would surpass the feature set of the latest DEQX unit at $6000!

I wonder how much the pro-grade Trinnov costs?

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#80467 - 10/10/08 12:43 PM Re: Active crossover in 997?
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Are you talking about crossovers for individual speakers, rather than crossovers for system bass management? If you are, then I suspect that it was omitted - including it would require 2, 3, or 4 separate pre-amp outputs for each speaker, and I really doubt they are doing that.
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#80468 - 10/11/08 09:07 AM Re: Active crossover in 997?
Javachip Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 15
Loc: San Diego CA
Yes, I meant 2, 3, or 4 way active crossover, meaning that the unit could have separate preamp outputs for tweeter, midrange, woofer, and up to one more driver per channel. That would meet the needs of those few enthusiasts whose speakers do not contain built-in passive crossovers. Currently there are only a few freestanding active crossovers on the market, including DEQX, Behringer, Marchand, Ground Sound, and a few additional PC-based crossovers.

Gonk, I salute you for your longevity and service to your fellow audio enthusiasts. smile

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#80469 - 10/11/08 11:52 AM Re: Active crossover in 997?
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
That is what I thought you were talking about. I think it is safe to say that this will not be included - quadrupling the number of pre-amp outputs would be a non-trivial expense, and the number of users who could actually benefit from it is just too small.
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gonk
HT Basics | HDMI FAQ | Pics | Remote Files | Art Show
Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#80470 - 10/11/08 04:22 PM Re: Active crossover in 997?
Altec Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 334
Anybody who is serious enough about sound to want to go the fully active crossover route should be serious enough about sound to realize that a home theater preamp does not have a clean enough signal path to equal the potential of an active setup.

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#80471 - 10/12/08 02:05 AM Re: Active crossover in 997?
bestbang4thebuck Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/20/03
Posts: 668
Loc: Maryland
Point One: one of the least published specs of any loudspeaker system is distortion. Typically one will find specs on power handling, frequency response, sensitivity, impedance and perhaps crossover points. Often some of these specs are exaggerated. Some manufacturers will publish typical frequency response curves, maybe even providing a specific chart for each unit sold. Almost none mention various types of distortion measured on their loudspeakers.

Why not? I think some people would ‘freak’ if they knew. Some consumers are looking for very low distortion specs in their electronics. Specs on the 990 show two distortion specs: Intermodulation Distortion: 60Hz-7kHz=4:1 SMTPE, 8 ohms, output 1V .09%; THD, output 1 V, 1kHz: .05%. Specs on the most Outlaw amps run .02%-.03% and .03%-.05% respectively for IM/THD. Would you by gear if the distortion specs were 200 times more than that? 500 times? Most of us did – our loudspeakers.

Point Two: Damping – how much is enough to maintain ‘control’ over the loudspeaker drivers? This issue has been discussed elsewhere. Essential to maintaining damping at the loudspeaker is keeping impedance between amplifier and driver to a minimum. People mostly think about their speaker cables in this regard. Most ignore the passive crossover components just before the drivers. Adding even a couple ohms impedance between amplifier output and driver can ‘kill’ most of the damping factor.

Point Three: Power Transfer – the same extra impedance that reduces damping also means less power output from the amplifier and loss along the path to the driver.

Point Four: non-linear interactive reactance occurs between passive crossover components and drivers. The only way to get around this is not have these reactive elements directly connected to each other.

Eliminating passive crossover components ahead of the drivers helps all of these things to one degree or another – and more. Minor point of disagreement with Altec’s statement: I think this should be a consideration even if a pre-pro is far from perfect.

Now I don’t expect that my 950/970/990/997 or any HT processor will give me active crossover outputs. And I don’t expect that even most enthusiasts will build their own active crossovers or spend enough to give themselves seven channels of custom-built active crossovers.

About the best way for consumers to go down the active crossover path is to consider well-designed powered speakers for their next speaker purchase. Having differential (balanced) outputs from your pre-pro will become helpful then, running line-level cables from processor to active loudspeakers spread around a room.

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#80472 - 10/12/08 03:38 AM Re: Active crossover in 997?
Altec Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 334
Quote:
Originally posted by bestbang4thebuck:
Minor point of disagreement with [b]Altec’s statement: I think this should be a consideration even if a pre-pro is far from perfect.
[/b]
I wouldn't expect that somebody would have all 7 channels using active crossovers - I don't even do that. However, with the two main channels which are used for music reproduction, every little bit of elimination of circuitry which is going to muck up the sonic quality is going to help toward the end. Believe me, home theater preamps are a virtual maze of buffers, coupling caps (cheap electrolytics) solid state switches, more buffers etc, etc.

Eliminating as much as possible of this does help. I could give you a very convincing demo of what elimination of unnecessary circuitry and optimization of the remainder can do toward the goal of best sonic quality. wink

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