If those cats know they're doing bad, then they're not delusional (i.e., they know right from wrong). If they are delusional (don't know the difference between good and bad), then they don't know they're bad guys.

Hmmm…interesting point. I guess what I'm saying is they definitely know they're operating outside the law or whatever. Recognizing that has gotta mean something…

That's possible, but it still doesn't mean you think of yourself as the bad guy. Imagine you were in the American south during the 1850s and helping slaves escape via the underground railroad to the north or Canada. You "definitely know" you're breaking the law. But would you consider yourself a bad guy for doing so?

Now put that same conviction and moral resolve into someone who is actually doing evil. Earlier I mentioned Magneto, who in the first 'X-Men' movie was going to use a machine to make everyone into mutants, thereby ending fear and hatred against his kind.

From his perspective, it's worth operating outside the law to do something so beneficial (ending discrimination) for society. Of course, by using his machine, he'll end up killing billions of people. But he doesn't care about that. And that's what makes him a really bad guy.

Not sure how much further I wanna pursue this, but to me equating a slave samaritan with Magneto seems a bit farfetched. Good and evil may be opposites, but to my mind they're not really interchangeable, so it's hard for me to see those things as analogous.

"Equating"? I pointed out things they have in common: both knowingly break the law, both believe they're doing good. My point, which apparently wasn't clear enough, is that knowingly breaking the law doesn't mean you consider yourself a bad guy. I even gave examples to support my point. Who said that good and evil were "interchangeable"? I explained why Magneto was evil, despite his belief that he's doing good. Did you actually read my post?

No, I did not…call me evil.

Wow, you're taking a discussion of fictional movie villians rather personally.

hmmm..hijacked by philosophy...
good or bad is all perception...
based on a moral stand point which often stems from a religious dogma...
now if I understand sdurani's point...
let me ask you this ?
do you know Paul Watson ?
is he good or evil ?
he does break the law...
some people even call him an ecoterrorist
but is he evil or good ?
I guess it depends who you ask....

and if we take this onto the moral person that a corporation is....
without breaking the law and without morals...
are GMO spewing corporations good or evil ?
what about a company that uses child labor or profits from a war-torn region?

all perception....

Oh dear, this is precisely what I feared would happen. For the record, Sanjay, I'm nowhere near taking anything personally. If anything, I'm embarrassed about my part in hijacking a thread that folks were just kinda warming up to. (It seems that none of my admittedly lame attempts to defuse the situation worked.) Laventura, I'm not sure your examples are all "perceptions", but in the context of this forum, they're gonna move folks away from thinking about bad people onscreen.

That said, Hannibal Lecter, anyone? Show of hands...

I hear y'a trublu
I had the tree hugger mentality take over this morning.... :rolleyes:
sorry folks...
Lecter would definitely be way up there...
How about Darth Vador ?
or as one of the creepiest...Max Shreck in Murneau's Nosferatu...