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#79754 - 10/14/09 11:41 PM tower speakers vs. Outlaw LCR
vangor Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Boerne, Tx
Hello everyone,
I was wondering who has downsized from large tower speakers to the Outlaw LCR's. I currently have the Definitive Technology BP7000SC's with the CLR3000. It might sound crazy but I am thinking of selling those off and going with the Outlaw LCR's up front and Outlaw surround's for rears. Also, Outlaw subs for the low end. I also am not sure whether to go with the Outlaw bookshelfs or LCR's. One of the main reasons for the change is my current tower speakers are HUGE. While I do love the "full" sound of the bipolar speakers, I sometimes question their imaging and accuracy since they fire rear as well. It sounds great but the sound coming off the wall behind the speakers sometimes sounds muddy. Another reason for switching is these speakers need a lot of breathing room. Anyways, just curious if it would be stupid for me to downsize from a speaker that sells for $2800 to a speaker that sells for $650. The reviews and feedback on the Outlaw speakers has been through the roof positive. I almost want to get back to simple and the Outlaw product seems to do that. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks

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#79755 - 10/15/09 02:38 AM Re: tower speakers vs. Outlaw LCR
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
I downsized from towers (Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v2's) to BLS's, actually. My review (in my sig) gives details, but the short answer is that I found the move to be an upgrade (especially after I got them onto stands of the correct height).
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#79756 - 10/15/09 08:19 AM Re: tower speakers vs. Outlaw LCR
Kubrickfan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 46
Loc: So. Calif
My story of making the change is already documented in this forum where I went from tower ESS, Fortura Soveriegns to Outlaw LCRs. I think one of the big items we worry about is loosing the large bottom end the towers provide. Including a high quality sub with the change (like I did with a LFM-1EX) makes it not only possible but an improvement. Trying to replace towers without a good sub would sound like a downgrade. With a good sub, it can make you wonder why you waited so long. I have both the LCRs and the Bookshelfs. I tested both in front and found the LCRs to have better high/mid end that I was looking for and let the sub provide the rest.
_________________________
Marantz AV7702mkII, Outlaw 7220, ,7ea-Outlaw LCR (2ea.- L/2ea.- R/C/SR/SL),Outlaw 7125 for 4ea-Outlaw LCRv2 (Atmos ceiling),Outlaw Ultra-X12 & LFM-1EX Subwoofers,BR/DVD Oppo BDP-103,BDP-83SE, Samsung 65" OLCD, Sofabato remote - Whole house audio via two (2ea) 7125s.

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#79757 - 10/15/09 02:00 PM Re: tower speakers vs. Outlaw LCR
vangor Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Boerne, Tx
Gonk & Kubrickfan,
have either of you mounted the LCR's on the wall? I would like to mount them but with the ability to toe them in so they are angled toward the listener. I have a 12x20 space where my home theater is. Three sides walls. The fourth side opens up to a 18x20 space. All with 8' celings. Which sub and how many do you recommend? Thanks

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#79758 - 10/15/09 03:29 PM Re: tower speakers vs. Outlaw LCR
vangor Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Boerne, Tx
Also, would the 7125 amp be enough for what I'm doing? Thanks

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#79759 - 10/15/09 05:08 PM Re: tower speakers vs. Outlaw LCR
Kubrickfan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 46
Loc: So. Calif
Vangor,
I have my LCRs mounted flat against the wall using the Outlaw mounts. My space is 35' x 15' and I'm sitting about 20' from my fronts. I also only have three walls in the front. I hear good full sound from all three LCRs across the front without any angle in toward the listener. My surround LCRs are also mounted flat on side walls and provide a good wide sound stage while only being about 6' away (just above and behind the listener.) The Bookshelf rear surrounds are angled in and away from the wall to give their rear ports the required breathing room.

I can only answer on the LFM-1EX sub I have that is filling my larger space wonderfully. I have considered a second sub but only as an overkill type of enhancement whim. I love the perfectly defined bass I now get with the 1EX and have the curiosity of what a second, in the rear would add (or not).

I'm running a 770 with 200 per channel but I have heard the 7125 will give you the power the speakers can provide. Trust me, these LCRs will give you the 'rock the house' volume whenever you want it. I have never found myself wanting or needing more out of them.
_________________________
Marantz AV7702mkII, Outlaw 7220, ,7ea-Outlaw LCR (2ea.- L/2ea.- R/C/SR/SL),Outlaw 7125 for 4ea-Outlaw LCRv2 (Atmos ceiling),Outlaw Ultra-X12 & LFM-1EX Subwoofers,BR/DVD Oppo BDP-103,BDP-83SE, Samsung 65" OLCD, Sofabato remote - Whole house audio via two (2ea) 7125s.

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#79760 - 10/15/09 05:55 PM Re: tower speakers vs. Outlaw LCR
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
My LCR is not wall-mounted. As I understand it, the standard bracket doesn't include a swivel. You would need a third-party bracket (I'm using Axiom FMB for my side surrounds and plan to retain those brackets for my SL's when I install them soon) to allow some sort of toe-in adjustment.

My space is about 17'x23' with 8' ceilings, but the openings onto other spaces are limited (standard doorway into the kitchen and another into the hall). I use an LFM-1 with very good results. Some folks would probably go for an extra sub.

I'm using a 7500 with my BLS's and LCR, but I also think the 7125 would do a very good job with them.
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#79761 - 10/15/09 11:31 PM Re: tower speakers vs. Outlaw LCR
vangor Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Boerne, Tx
Appreciate the good info. I am currently selling my M&K S-150 THX monitors because I just cant come to like these
speakers. I have tried and tried bit they
just sound cold and hollow to me... No warmth. I'll give the LCR's a try and post my results here. I will be running them on my onkyo 805 receiver for now. I will eventually get an outlaw amp which will be my first separate amp ever. I have always had receivers; the 805 being the nicest. I'll post some results when I get the LCR's. Thanks again.

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#79762 - 10/16/09 03:04 AM Re: tower speakers vs. Outlaw LCR
AvFan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/12/05
Posts: 619
Loc: El Cajon, California
vangor:

M&K certainly received criticism their speakers were bright. As you can tell from my signature I'm one of the folks that likes their sound but my opinion comes with a caveat. I originally was using a Pioneer Elite receiver and when I went to the 990/ATI 2005 (virtual clone of the Outlaw 7500) I was very pleasantly surprised at how much better my M&Ks sounded. They lost that hollow sound you describe. I went by old advice to spend my money on speakers and sources because the electronics in the middle played a lesser role in the overall sound. But in my case the separates provided significant improvement. So the caveat is M&Ks need some power to sound their best. You may want to consider how a 990/7500 or 990/7125 sounds with your M&Ks.

But back to speakers...Are there better speakers than M&K? You bet! Are the Outlaw speakers in that category? Quite possibly and Outlaw's 30 day return policy allows you to find out in your home and make direct comparisons to the S-150s. I'd be particularly interested in your opinion between the LCR and S-150. Regardless, if you sell the S-150s you will be able to offset most of the cost of the LCRs based upon what S-150s are selling for on ebay and Audiogon.
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AvFan
Outlaw 976 | ATI 2005 | M&K 850s Left, Center & Right, Surround-55s, MX-70B Sub | Harmony 950 remote | Panamax 5100 | OPPO UDP-203 | LG OLED55B7

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#79763 - 10/16/09 11:34 AM Re: tower speakers vs. Outlaw LCR
vangor Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Boerne, Tx
AvFan,
your right. I probably should have ran my M&K's off of a dedicated amp. My buddy has the same speakers and runs them off a Sherbourn 110x7 amp and they don't sound any better to me. Don't get me wrong, those speakers will drive hard (which he does, probably way too hard) but I always compared them to my Definitive Technology BP7000SC tower speakers which are very inviting. They are harsh to me... might be due to having 3 tweeters, I'm not sure. I have always had good speakers but never dedicated amps. When I moved from my Yamaha receiver to the Onkyo 805, there was a HUGE improvement in sound. I will never buy another Yamaha receiver again (plus they are way to hard to configure, especially if you lose the remote). I already have my M&K's sold. Next are my definitive towers because I don't have the room I used to have. Trying to place towers that are 52" tall is a pain and these speakers need to breathe due to the bipolar array. I just want to simplify... get back to basics. I have never owned an Outlaw product but that seems to be what they offer... plus value. Just waiting to sell my BP7000SC's towers and then I'll put the order in for the LCR's. I will definitely post my results here. Thanks for your help.

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#79764 - 10/16/09 01:23 PM Re: tower speakers vs. Outlaw LCR
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Good luck with your upgrades. I look forward to hearing what you think of the LCR's.
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gonk
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#79765 - 10/16/09 04:08 PM Re: tower speakers vs. Outlaw LCR
AvFan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/12/05
Posts: 619
Loc: El Cajon, California
Like Gonk I'd like to hear what you think about the LCRs. My M&Ks are pretty new but if one of them goes down it is hard to find exact replacement parts. If that were to happen I would definitely look towards the LCRs and it would be great to have your insights on how the LCRs sound versus your old M&Ks. Enjoy!
_________________________
AvFan
Outlaw 976 | ATI 2005 | M&K 850s Left, Center & Right, Surround-55s, MX-70B Sub | Harmony 950 remote | Panamax 5100 | OPPO UDP-203 | LG OLED55B7

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#79766 - 10/16/09 04:33 PM Re: tower speakers vs. Outlaw LCR
Kubrickfan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 46
Loc: So. Calif
I too echo the good luck on your changes and look forward to your impressions of the LCRs. I have been waving a flag about these speakers but look forward to hearing more feedback. They were a welcome change that was also pushed forward for me to free up floor space over large tower speakers. Very curious and hope they pass the 30 day trial for you.
_________________________
Marantz AV7702mkII, Outlaw 7220, ,7ea-Outlaw LCR (2ea.- L/2ea.- R/C/SR/SL),Outlaw 7125 for 4ea-Outlaw LCRv2 (Atmos ceiling),Outlaw Ultra-X12 & LFM-1EX Subwoofers,BR/DVD Oppo BDP-103,BDP-83SE, Samsung 65" OLCD, Sofabato remote - Whole house audio via two (2ea) 7125s.

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#79767 - 10/19/09 04:12 AM Re: tower speakers vs. Outlaw LCR
vangor Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Boerne, Tx
Are the Outlaw speakers (BLS and LCR) in a different class from other speakers found on the internet... Axiom, Asperion, Emotiva, Etc. There are several Internet speaker companies that offer all kinds of bookshelf and monitor speakers for much less money and everywhere you look you read great things about them... especially Axiom. There has got to be a difference between the Outlaw speaker offerings and the other internet competitors. Axiom is selling there M22's for $470 a pair with free shipping. I also noticed the Outlaw LCR is using a treated paper woofer. I thought paper woofers were used on cheaper speakers. Just curious, it is hard to swallow the $650 price tag on the Outlaw LCR's. Thanks

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#79768 - 10/19/09 12:03 PM Re: tower speakers vs. Outlaw LCR
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Speakers can be had in a wide range of prices. Even among internet-direct manufacturers, you can look at the bookshelf offerings out there and find a very wide range of prices The BLS is said to be pretty comparable to Ascend's Sierra 1, which is a really excellent speaker in the same price range. The Onix line (formerly distributed online by AV123, now handled online by a network of small distributors) has bookshelf speakers that range from about $950/pair up to almost $2000/pair. I've heard Axiom's M3 - in fact I'm about to replace a pair that I've been using as side surrounds for a number of years now - and while they are nice enough speakers, they are not as good as the BLS. Having listened to the two, I would say that they could reasonably classified as being in a different class. The M3 has plastic caps on its binding posts, while the BLS has metal caps on the bi-wirable binding posts along with controls for boundary compensation and high frequency adjustment. The upgraded posts are a nice touch. The controls are a really useful tool for room compensation. The BLS and LCR are built in the US (which is going to add cost) using European-made drivers (yes they are treated paper woofers, but that does not mean they are cheap). The LCR's $650 price tag exists for a reason, and personally I found them to be worth it. They have better build quality (including real wood veneer on the ones I bought) and sounded a bit better than the Paradigm Reference speakers (a $600 center and $1200 pair of towers when I bought them in 2001) that I had previously.
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#85333 - 12/24/10 06:40 PM Re: tower speakers vs. Outlaw LCR [Re: vangor]
dwmayo1 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 47
Loc: Buffalo, NY
I am considering selling my B&W's 603S3 Fronts and the LCR60 Center Channel for the Outlaw LCR's fronts and center....after reading some negative reviews of the Outlaw LCR versus the Klisch Reference 82, I have some concerns.

any comments, suggestions?

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#85334 - 12/24/10 09:27 PM Re: tower speakers vs. Outlaw LCR [Re: dwmayo1]
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
The LCRs are not full range speakers. They will require a sub wooofer to provide the kind of bass you are used to. They will also require stands to get the proper height and are expensive to boot. Are you dis-satisfied with the 603s? You can audition the LCRs for 30 days but if you are looking for full range you may be dissappointed.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

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#85335 - 12/25/10 12:11 PM Re: tower speakers vs. Outlaw LCR [Re: XenonMan]
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Speakers are inherently a matter of personal taste. There are a lot of good speakers on the market, but none of them are going to be right for everyone. I found the Outlaw speakers (Bookshelves and LCR) to be a modest sonic upgrade from Paradigm Studio 60's and Studio CC. The best bet may be to make use of the 30-day trial period so you can listen and judge for yourself.
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