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#77773 - 03/06/07 02:59 PM Hum (buzzing) related to voltage increase
nfaguys Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 500
Loc: Maine
Interesting problem I have and if there are any electrical-type guys out there I would be most interested in your thoughts.

I have a wind turbine that generates electricity. The greater the RPMs (i.e.greater wind velocityt) the more kWh it generates. Also I noticed that when it goes faster I get a buzzing sound in the speakers (990 volume at lowest level). Of great interest is that I discovered on two voltage readouts in my system (one being a MONSTER) that the voltage goes up correspondingly...i.e from maybe 122 to 125.x or 126.x volts. Then as wind dies down, voltage goes back to usual....and get this: certain digital clocks go way ahead, but not all.

So I guess a solution might be (what do you think) to put some kind of voltage regulator between the wall outlet (it's a new 20 amp circuit) and the MONSTER-into which the preamp amp etc are plugged.

Thanks in advance....and I love my outlaw gear smile smile
_________________________
Living Room:
5.1 Surround and 4channel inline room
990/7700/6-KEF-107s/LFM1 x 2/ SMS Awaiting Trinnov
Millenium dts decoder;Digital Director
Players: Tascam CD01U/SonyCX455 x 3/DV955/BDP83
Old Sony 60" SXRD TV
Zone 2 (also liv-Room: listening to music while Mrs watches TV): Crown SL2 preamp/D40 Amp/Stax Headphones



My "Man-cave":
4 channel-only inline room. No TV (thank heaven)!!!
990/755/4-KEF 107s
Tascam CD01U/dts decoder/digital director
Alesis 16x4x2 mixer
Recorders Alesis HD24/ML9600/Crown CX844s/SonyDAT/Tascam DA38
Ham Radio Shack (KB1STH) ICOM/Yaesu/Drakes x 3

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#77774 - 03/06/07 10:15 PM Re: Hum (buzzing) related to voltage increase
AvFan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/12/05
Posts: 619
Loc: El Cajon, California
nfaguys,

I'm not an electrical guy but maybe an uninterruptable power supply for your HT would solve your voltage problem. I understand they are used for computers in most cases. I have no idea if you can get one that would fit your the load from your HT gear but in theory the battery in the UPS would isolate your HT from the swing in voltage caused by your wind turbine.
_________________________
AvFan
Outlaw 976 | ATI 2005 | M&K 850s Left, Center & Right, Surround-55s, MX-70B Sub | Harmony 950 remote | Panamax 5100 | OPPO UDP-203 | LG OLED55B7

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#77775 - 03/06/07 10:21 PM Re: Hum (buzzing) related to voltage increase
taylodr Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 43
Loc: Richmond, VA
Can you give more details on how the the wind turbine interfaces with you system? (Inverter, battery storage, etc)
_________________________
Outlaw Audio 990
Outlaw Audio 2200 (5)
Monitor Audio RS-6
Monitor Audio LCR
Philips Ambilight 42" HD Plasma
Project Debut III

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#77776 - 03/07/07 06:58 AM Re: Hum (buzzing) related to voltage increase
nfaguys Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 500
Loc: Maine
Thanks for the idea AVFAN. Will try and repor back.
Re: taylodr's question: the wind turbine is tied to the grid. When production exeeds consumption by us the meter runs backward, as we are sending to the grid. It is, otherwise, seamless.
_________________________
Living Room:
5.1 Surround and 4channel inline room
990/7700/6-KEF-107s/LFM1 x 2/ SMS Awaiting Trinnov
Millenium dts decoder;Digital Director
Players: Tascam CD01U/SonyCX455 x 3/DV955/BDP83
Old Sony 60" SXRD TV
Zone 2 (also liv-Room: listening to music while Mrs watches TV): Crown SL2 preamp/D40 Amp/Stax Headphones



My "Man-cave":
4 channel-only inline room. No TV (thank heaven)!!!
990/755/4-KEF 107s
Tascam CD01U/dts decoder/digital director
Alesis 16x4x2 mixer
Recorders Alesis HD24/ML9600/Crown CX844s/SonyDAT/Tascam DA38
Ham Radio Shack (KB1STH) ICOM/Yaesu/Drakes x 3

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#77777 - 03/07/07 09:38 AM Re: Hum (buzzing) related to voltage increase
taylodr Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 43
Loc: Richmond, VA
From hearing you situation, I would say that you are probably not only experiencing an increase in voltage, but a change in the actual frequency as well.
As with most generators (deisel, gas, etc) your wind turbine probably has a set tolerance for change in frequency as well as voltage. This has to do with the mechanical process of moving parts to create the electricity. After all a generator is really nothing but a motor being run backwards.
Esentially what is sounds like, is you are being directly fed the back EMF from the turbine strait into your home power.
Most likely a voltage regenerator is you best option. Surge protectors and power conditioners try to protect from voltage surges (low and high) and try to filter out noise. A voltage regenerator actually re-creates the 60Hz sine wave of a "perfect" power input.
Some clocks use the 60Hz to keep time, so if you frequency is increased by a really fast wind, any clock of that type would speed up.
_________________________
Outlaw Audio 990
Outlaw Audio 2200 (5)
Monitor Audio RS-6
Monitor Audio LCR
Philips Ambilight 42" HD Plasma
Project Debut III

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#77778 - 03/07/07 10:06 AM Re: Hum (buzzing) related to voltage increase
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Taylodr, you might find this old thread by nfaguys interesting - it's only taken you 13 posts to tell me that you're a handy EE to have around the forum, and nfaguys has some good nitty-gritty details in that thread about his wind turbine that you might find interesting.
_________________________
gonk
HT Basics | HDMI FAQ | Pics | Remote Files | Art Show
Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#77779 - 03/07/07 11:38 AM Re: Hum (buzzing) related to voltage increase
nfaguys Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 500
Loc: Maine
taylordr has made a good point about the frequency(60 Hz). Actually the wind turbine MUST be in "sync" with grid in terms of voltage and frequency. They checked it out (and some safety features) before OK-ing it. Furthermore the electronics of the windturbine system won't work unless the frequency (as well as voltage) is sync'd.

That being said, I will make it a point when I hear the buzzing again and see the voltage on my MONSTER climb to go and look at the frequency readout on my electronics. I also have a ATS (automatic transfer switch)with readout of volts-amps-frequency.

Thanks also to gonk for reference to the prior thread.
_________________________
Living Room:
5.1 Surround and 4channel inline room
990/7700/6-KEF-107s/LFM1 x 2/ SMS Awaiting Trinnov
Millenium dts decoder;Digital Director
Players: Tascam CD01U/SonyCX455 x 3/DV955/BDP83
Old Sony 60" SXRD TV
Zone 2 (also liv-Room: listening to music while Mrs watches TV): Crown SL2 preamp/D40 Amp/Stax Headphones



My "Man-cave":
4 channel-only inline room. No TV (thank heaven)!!!
990/755/4-KEF 107s
Tascam CD01U/dts decoder/digital director
Alesis 16x4x2 mixer
Recorders Alesis HD24/ML9600/Crown CX844s/SonyDAT/Tascam DA38
Ham Radio Shack (KB1STH) ICOM/Yaesu/Drakes x 3

Top
#77780 - 03/08/07 09:08 AM Re: Hum (buzzing) related to voltage increase
taylodr Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 43
Loc: Richmond, VA
Gonk, thanks! Nfaguys that sounds like a really cool setup. You would want to post picks of that tower? Sounds really cool. I have always dreamed of having a self sustaining cabin up in a mountain somewhere, using geo and wind / solar.
Anyway, please do update when you are able to check the freq. next time.
_________________________
Outlaw Audio 990
Outlaw Audio 2200 (5)
Monitor Audio RS-6
Monitor Audio LCR
Philips Ambilight 42" HD Plasma
Project Debut III

Top
#77781 - 03/08/07 09:26 AM Re: Hum (buzzing) related to voltage increase
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
I'll second the interest in pics of the wind turbine setup - if you want me to, nfaguys, you can e-mail them to me and I'll toss them on my site.
_________________________
gonk
HT Basics | HDMI FAQ | Pics | Remote Files | Art Show
Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#77782 - 03/08/07 01:34 PM Re: Hum (buzzing) related to voltage increase
nfaguys Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 500
Loc: Maine
to gonk
I'll send some pics. I have some of the tower and turbine, but have not taken pics inside the garage where the electronics reside. I'll get some together and forward them to you.

to taylodr
In order to have a self-sustaining cabin (i.e. off-grid)you would use batteries and an inverter, or a generator. If generator alone, then the only power available would be when gennie was running. Batteries and inverter is the way to go. But the batteries need to get juice somehow. You can use solar panels (which are DC) and/or a DC windturbine. Mine is not DC. It's grid-interie so it must be AC and in sync with grid. If you or anyone else wants to email me or talk to me about these kinds of setups I'll be glad to pass along what I've learned. Our turbine, batteries, inverter(s), generator(s) have been up since 1999.
How to contact me? Maybe a PM with your contact info???
_________________________
Living Room:
5.1 Surround and 4channel inline room
990/7700/6-KEF-107s/LFM1 x 2/ SMS Awaiting Trinnov
Millenium dts decoder;Digital Director
Players: Tascam CD01U/SonyCX455 x 3/DV955/BDP83
Old Sony 60" SXRD TV
Zone 2 (also liv-Room: listening to music while Mrs watches TV): Crown SL2 preamp/D40 Amp/Stax Headphones



My "Man-cave":
4 channel-only inline room. No TV (thank heaven)!!!
990/755/4-KEF 107s
Tascam CD01U/dts decoder/digital director
Alesis 16x4x2 mixer
Recorders Alesis HD24/ML9600/Crown CX844s/SonyDAT/Tascam DA38
Ham Radio Shack (KB1STH) ICOM/Yaesu/Drakes x 3

Top
#77783 - 03/09/07 07:20 AM Re: Hum (buzzing) related to voltage increase
Hullguy Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 380
Loc: South Weymouth, MA USA
I've ben thinking about your problem when your voltage increases on windy days. Most electrical equipment used to be designed to be able to handle a 10% voltage swing. Most of the stuff manufactured today is built to sustain a 5% swing in voltage. This is done to keep costs down.

Most inverters act as voltage regulators on the conversion from DC to AC voltage. I'd be concerned with the voltage swing you are showing and have the inverter looked at to make sure it is still operating correctly. Jim

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#77784 - 03/09/07 07:40 AM Re: Hum (buzzing) related to voltage increase
nfaguys Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 500
Loc: Maine
Thanks hullguy fo your thoughts. The electronics of the windmill system are probablhy at fault. Your thoughts about age related to circuitry 5% v. 10% is probably valid. Ours is an older system which we bought used, though the electronics portion had to be replaced at our home several yrs ago.
_________________________
Living Room:
5.1 Surround and 4channel inline room
990/7700/6-KEF-107s/LFM1 x 2/ SMS Awaiting Trinnov
Millenium dts decoder;Digital Director
Players: Tascam CD01U/SonyCX455 x 3/DV955/BDP83
Old Sony 60" SXRD TV
Zone 2 (also liv-Room: listening to music while Mrs watches TV): Crown SL2 preamp/D40 Amp/Stax Headphones



My "Man-cave":
4 channel-only inline room. No TV (thank heaven)!!!
990/755/4-KEF 107s
Tascam CD01U/dts decoder/digital director
Alesis 16x4x2 mixer
Recorders Alesis HD24/ML9600/Crown CX844s/SonyDAT/Tascam DA38
Ham Radio Shack (KB1STH) ICOM/Yaesu/Drakes x 3

Top
#77785 - 03/09/07 09:25 AM Re: Hum (buzzing) related to voltage increase
Hullguy Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 380
Loc: South Weymouth, MA USA
Love the way you have your house hooked up to alternative energy. Someday I hope to have the resources to be able to set up a wind turbine in my backyard!!!

My union Local 103 in Boston is a big proponent of wind energy. Here's a link to the wind turbine we have set up in front of our hall.
http://www.ibew103.com/node/605

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#77786 - 03/09/07 10:13 AM Re: Hum (buzzing) related to voltage increase
nfaguys Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 500
Loc: Maine
Hullguy:
I looked at the pics. What is the sweep (diameter) of the blades. How high is the tower. Looks like it might be muti-hundred kw and megawatt turbine.

Recently there were 28 wind turbines set up on a mountain 15 miles south of our home. The generators atop the towers are said to weight 55 tons. There are two blades; each is much greater than 75'. Perhaps 100'.

So lots of power will be produced, but we're told that the energy will go South and that our energy costs will not be reduced due to green power up here. Not surprised!!

So I guess the moral of the story is that if you want to reduce your energy costs you have to do it yourslef.
_________________________
Living Room:
5.1 Surround and 4channel inline room
990/7700/6-KEF-107s/LFM1 x 2/ SMS Awaiting Trinnov
Millenium dts decoder;Digital Director
Players: Tascam CD01U/SonyCX455 x 3/DV955/BDP83
Old Sony 60" SXRD TV
Zone 2 (also liv-Room: listening to music while Mrs watches TV): Crown SL2 preamp/D40 Amp/Stax Headphones



My "Man-cave":
4 channel-only inline room. No TV (thank heaven)!!!
990/755/4-KEF 107s
Tascam CD01U/dts decoder/digital director
Alesis 16x4x2 mixer
Recorders Alesis HD24/ML9600/Crown CX844s/SonyDAT/Tascam DA38
Ham Radio Shack (KB1STH) ICOM/Yaesu/Drakes x 3

Top
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