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#76960 - 01/22/06 08:32 PM Re: Web site changes
ratpack Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 110
Loc: Alabama
gband and others: as an electronic engineer, you know that the sound from a linear amplifier SHOULD sound the same (just amplified) at 1W, 10W or 100W OR IT ISN'T A LINEAR AMPLIFIER!!!

If some of the receivers and pre/pros REALLY sound different, then we have problems with the different manufacturers specifications. Plain and simple, it just can't be.

I have also seen a number of articles of double blind tests where some noted audiophiles just could not tell the difference between a $400 reciver and something costing in the $1000s.

Go Figure.

Anyhow, I'm still eagerly awaiting the new amps.
_________________________
The Rat.

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#76961 - 01/22/06 11:19 PM Re: Web site changes
Wharf Rat Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 21
I attempted to order a 7700 this evening but kept getting a server error after the last step of filling everything out. So either they aren't accepting orders for these yet or their website is having problems.

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#76962 - 01/23/06 12:22 AM Re: Web site changes
lanion Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 161
except that at 1W, 10W, and 100W our ears percieve sounds in different ways. Our perception of low and high frequency noise is much different at low volumes than at high volumes.

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#76963 - 01/23/06 07:21 AM Re: Web site changes
ratpack Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 110
Loc: Alabama
lanion: I was talking about the specific electronic performance of the amplifier.

I have not seen anything about hearing perception versus loudness. Could be that you are right. I don't know about that.
_________________________
The Rat.

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#76964 - 01/23/06 07:23 AM Re: Web site changes
ratpack Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 110
Loc: Alabama
Wharf: when you get your new 770, please give us a series of reports about its operation and how you like it.

TIA.
_________________________
The Rat.

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#76965 - 01/23/06 11:01 AM Re: Web site changes
lanion Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 161
Equal loudness curves:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/sound/eqloud.html

this is why some preamps have a 'loudness' button; so that it boost the bass levels and make it sound like it is supposed to.

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#76966 - 01/23/06 06:12 PM Re: Web site changes
ratpack Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 110
Loc: Alabama
lanion: thanks for the link. Those are some interesting charts. While I was referencing the linear amplifier being linear, I now suspect that each individual must also take into account his/ her hearing for optimal listening pleasure. Those with either very good or very bad hearing may want to take specific note. I think that those chart were probably a generalized ensemble of a group.

Great post.
_________________________
The Rat.

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#76967 - 01/23/06 09:09 PM Re: Web site changes
gband Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 65
Loc: Central NJ
ratpack, linearity also is not perfect and has errors. Power delivered is a function of impedance and a speakers load is NOT linear. Therefore the load the amplfier sees at 1W, 10W and 100W is different. Unfortunately it is also not purely resistive, it is reactive and has a direct impact on an amplifiers performance, particularly in the frequency response.
If everything were equal, loads were purely resistive, then yes it would be linear and we could all rest easy.
I am merely pointing out that specifications are done at a particular set of criteria, in the case of amplifiers full power out at an 8 ohm resistive load. Given a different set of criteria, the specifications would be different, and therefore probably sound different.

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#76968 - 01/23/06 10:00 PM Re: Web site changes
Wharf Rat Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 21
I was able to get the order placed tonight for a 7700. Turns out I was entering 1-866-xxx-xxxx in the field for the credit card number on back of the card. The leading "1-" is not required and causes the whole script to bomb out, not give a warning to fix it like it should do.

Regardless, the 7700 be on the way soon.

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#76969 - 01/24/06 03:34 PM Re: Web site changes
braidkid Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 102
Loc: WA
Quote:
If some of the receivers and pre/pros REALLY sound different, then we have problems with the different manufacturers specifications. Plain and simple, it just can't be.
Ratpack, as others have testified, there is a rather large difference going from receiver to dedicated pre/pro. If you were to do an A/B comparison between the 990 and your Onkyo, I think you'd be shocked at the differences.

Differences between amps are rather minor, however, they are more evident between processors. But, sounds like you are happy with the Onkyo and that is great!!! Ignorance is bliss!!
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Denon DVD-2910
M&K LCR750
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