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#76812 - 09/30/09 05:34 AM New to AV
Baseball Nut Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 09/29/09
Posts: 6
I have Polk Monitor 70 front speakers, Polk CS2 center channel, Polk Monitor 60 for Rear speakers and a Velodyne sub. I have a budget of about $1200 and I would like to know what Amp/PreAmp processor or receiver I should buy.

Does anybody wish to help guide me on this adventure?

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#76813 - 09/30/09 11:55 AM Re: New to AV
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Since we're in the saloon, I'm going to start by looking at what Outlaw offers in your price range. All three speakers are 90dB efficient, 8 ohm speakers, so you shouldn't need a really huge amp to drive them (not like the LSi15 and LSi25 that have been found to be very power-hungry speakers). A Model 7125 should serve you very well indeed, and a Model 7075 could probably even do the trick depending on the room size. Based on that, you could do any one of the following four options:

  • Model 970/Model 7075: $999
  • Model 970/Model 7125: $1278
  • Model 990/Model 7075: $1289
  • Model 990/Model 7125: $1598


The Model 990 offers better sound (higher grade DAC's) and a few more setup options (input labeling, the ability to assign component and DVI inputs to any video input, automatic speaker setup) compared to the Model 970, but both will provide very good sound quality relative to the typical surround receiver.

There are some other factors to consider, still. What sources are you using? What display do you have? What other upgrade plans might you be considering? Those can all influence your decisions.
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gonk
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#76814 - 09/30/09 02:09 PM Re: New to AV
Baseball Nut Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 09/29/09
Posts: 6
I have Cable TV, DVD players, and VCR as input devices. Eventually I plan to add Blueray player sometime next year. And eventually placing the system in a room big enough for 7.1 system which means I will be adding surround speakers.

Is the 7075 and 7125 high current amps? Do high current amps make a difference?

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#76815 - 09/30/09 06:11 PM Re: New to AV
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
I don't know that "high current amp" is an especially well defined baseline, but if you are comparing either amp to the amp section of a typical receiver you will find that the Model 7075 and 7125 are much more robust designs. The galleries on Outlaw's site don't include any pictures under the hood of either amp, but I've got some 7125 pictures here that will show you how both amps are built. The power supply is larger than you'll find in a typical surround receiver (with all of the power going to the amps, since there's no other systems present to need any current), the amp channels are more substantial, and the heat sinks are much bigger. Both amps are rated with all channels driven, while most receivers are rated with one or maybe two channels driven. The difference between the two approaches is largely a result of power supply: these amps can provide enough current to their channels to drive multiple channels to a high level simultaneously. This will come up if you look at the reviews for these amps (links available for both the Model 7125 and Model 7075 ). One example for the 7075 is the bench test from Sound & Vision: a single channel driven to clipping produced 102W at 8 ohms and 163W at 4 ohms. That's well above the rated 75W at 8 ohms and 115W at 4 ohms. Even when driving five of the channels at once at 8 ohms, each channel could provide 92W before clipping (about 23% more output than the rating). Receivers are built to do that because of the space required and the cost required. An example of when can become important is when a system must react suddenly to large shifts in output (such as an explosion in an action movie) and the current demands change very rapidly.
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gonk
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#76816 - 10/07/09 05:35 PM Re: New to AV
Baseball Nut Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 09/29/09
Posts: 6
When laying out wire for your speakers does it make a difference the wire length to each speaker? Should the wire length all be the same? Or does the pram-processor compensate for this?

I will probably be buying the 990/7125 in the next couple of months.

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#76817 - 10/07/09 06:05 PM Re: New to AV
KOYAAN Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/04/05
Posts: 358
Loc: Sanford NC
There isn't any reason to make all of the speaker wires the same length.It's far more important to the sound to keep the speakers about the same distance from your listening position.
The 990 doesn't have parametric equalization, but it will allow you to compensate for distance differences in speaker placement and speaker volume settings either automatically or manually.
_________________________
HT:
990/770
Oppo BD83SE
Pioneer Elite DV-47A
Magnavox HDMR513h DVR/DVD-R
Sony DVD megachangers-2
Sony CD megachangers-2
Monster power centers-2
Sony 48" rear projection SDTV
Roku video player
JVC AL-A158 Turntable
Polk RT-2000s,CS-650,XS-650s,RT80s
LFM-1EX
Hsu VTF-1
12" Velodyne

Family room:
OPPO 970
Sony 32" direct view HDTV
Denon 3801
Rolk RMs

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#76818 - 10/07/09 09:00 PM Re: New to AV
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
KOYAAN's exactly right. The processor has a feature to compensate for differences in speaker distances from the listening position by allowing you to tell it the distances for each speaker (roughly 1ms of correction per foot takes care of this, with closer speakers needing delay so they match up with more remote speakers), but that's dealing with the speed of sound as the sound waves travel from speaker to ear. The signals in the wires are going much faster, and the time required to travel along five feet of wire compared to 50 feet of wire isn't a number you need to concern yourself with.
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gonk
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#76819 - 10/08/09 01:30 AM Re: New to AV
Baseball Nut Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 09/29/09
Posts: 6
Should a Home Theater system use a power condition or a UPS?

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#76820 - 10/08/09 03:52 AM Re: New to AV
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
A UPS is going to be expensive due to the current draw involved, and it will be only good for a short time unless you get a really big battery. Some folks do it, but I'd hardly consider it a necessity. I do think that some good surge protection is smart, though. I got a Belkin unit on significant discount a while back (list price is absurdly overpriced), but there are plenty of other options out there from folks like Tripp-Lite, Panamax, or Brick Wall.
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gonk
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#76821 - 10/08/09 01:31 PM Re: New to AV
sluggo Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 361
Loc: Plano, TX
Agree w/gonk...surge protection is a life saver - I had one save my system years ago while two lamps on the same circuit were fried. A UPS is really only a necessity if you have a front/rear projector that has a sensitivity to being shut off without cool down time.
_________________________
--Greg

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#76822 - 10/08/09 01:42 PM Re: New to AV
Baseball Nut Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 09/29/09
Posts: 6
Does anybody recommend a specific speaker wire and gauge? At the moment I have seen speaker wire as large as 8 gauge but that seems a bit extreme and some of the 12 gauge wire has a strand count as high as 294. What works best?

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#76823 - 10/08/09 01:50 PM Re: New to AV
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
There's not a real good reason to go past 12ga, and even that may be more than you really need (particularly for shorter runs). I can't recall right now if my surrounds are run with 14ga or 16ga. If you are looking for a source online, I just ordered some short pieces from Blue Jeans Cables with bananas already on them (found that one of the runs from amp to wall plate for my surrounds had a loose connection on it and decided to replace it with something nicer). They also sell unterminated wire, as does MonoPrice.
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gonk
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#76824 - 10/08/09 10:27 PM Re: New to AV
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
If you are going to spend big $$$ on a HT system, protecting it from Ben Franklins kite effect and ConEds equipment failures should be a concern. I have APC H-15 power conditioners and they have excellent protective circuitry. I don't subscribe to the notion that a power conditioner makes your TV or sound system more better, but it does seem to ensure that the power going to my equipment is constant. I have had the same bulb in my DLP for the last 4 years of heavy use. The conditioner also gives me a pretty good way to eliminate pesky ground loop problems I hear about all the time.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

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#76825 - 10/08/09 10:32 PM Re: New to AV
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
As far a speaker wire goes, go down to Home Depot or Lowes and get some 12 or 14 gauge lamp cord in whatever length you need and tie it into you system using bare wire connections. Make sure none of the little strands touch any of the other terminals or the cabinet. 12 gauge lamp cord will handle much more power than you are ever going to put to your speakers, unless you amplifiers doubles as an arc welder. At $.30 per foot you can afford the $20 risk before you take the plunge into speaker wire which costs more than a car loan.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

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#76826 - 10/09/09 04:24 PM Re: New to AV
Baseball Nut Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 09/29/09
Posts: 6
Has anybody ever used KnuKonceptz speaker wire?

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#76827 - 10/09/09 05:45 PM Re: New to AV
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Never even heard of them, I'm afraid.
_________________________
gonk
HT Basics | HDMI FAQ | Pics | Remote Files | Art Show
Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#76828 - 10/17/09 02:42 PM Re: New to AV
vangor Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Boerne, Tx
Baseball Nut,
Don't waste your money on overpriced speaker wire. The more and more you research speaker wire, the more likely you are to get confused and paranoid. I say paranoid because it is really easy to worry about whether or not you are getting the best possible sound out of your system. Since the beginning of audio revolution, audiophiles have argued the benefits of one speaker wire over another. Go to monoprice.com and buy some 14ga or 12ga speaker wire. For most applications, 14ga. is more than enough. I ran 12 ga in my HT just because it was so cheap.
Here is the link to the speaker wire: http://www.monoprice.com/products/produc...&seq=1&format=2

Anyone else selling this speaker wire would charge 3-4 times as much. Also, another area in HT where a lot of snake oil is pushed is HDMI cables. I recently have been doing a test with $6 , 10', 28AWG HDMI cables that I purchased from tartancable.com (which is actually blue jeans cable). I have been running my $6 HDMI cables for over 6 months now with no problem. I actually have one running to my 55" Fujitsu panel. That panel sold for $15,000 when it was first released. It is the most amazing panel I have ever seen. The $6 HDMI cables are servicing it great. I can't tell one bit of difference when I switch back to $100 or $200 HDMI cables from Monster. Monster Cable is the biggest rip off in the Audio/Video arena. I have a lot of their product but I will never purchase another product from them again. EVER! Sorry for the rant but the whole speaker wire and HDMI debates get me fired up. Save money where you can if its justified, you worked hard for it. Thats just my two cents....

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#76829 - 10/23/09 09:58 PM Re: New to AV
TechnoPope Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Baseball Nut,
I use KnuKonceptz products in most of my HTs. I believe they offer a great product for the price. I am now using their eKs line in two systems. I did have one RCA interconnect end go bad and they replaced it immediately for free. Their Karma and Kasa speaker wires are very nice and attractive but can get expensive for long runs. The silver plating on the Kasa may be appreciated by some but is hardly necessary. The Karma's twisted arrangement mimics another high end wire company's design at a fraction of the cost. An inexpensive 12ga wire I have used and prefer, because it is very flexible and comes in a large spool, is made by Dayton Audio and sold by Parts Express - http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?srchExt=CAT&srchCat=374. 12ga is most useful for those long rear speaker runs and buying a large spool allows for custom cut lenghts. I highly recommend using a component sized power conditioner. The APC H15 is a great product and can be had for under 100 shipped when on sale. I have both the older H10 (too many LEDs!) and the newer H15. I too credit mine for extending the life of my rear projector bulb.

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