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#76138 - 04/05/07 02:02 AM Outlaw vs. Emotiva
Badger71 Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 2
I have been researching both of these companies and quite frankly they both seem very solid. Lonnie at Emotiva and Steve at Outlaw are to me in a dead heat as far as the imformation and time that they give to you when you call them. I know Emotiva has a 5 year warranty on there products and don't know what Outlaws is. I have been comparing the 970-7125 to the LPA-1, MMC-1. Outlaws price with shipping is $1685.00, while Emotivas price is 1499.00 with free shipping. Both of the amplifies are very similar with a little more configurations with the LPA-1. But this is what is confusing to me and maybe someone might have an answer, The price for the Emotiva LPA-1 (package price) is $399.00 while the 7125 is (package price) is $949.00, a $550.00 difference. The price for the 970 (package price) is $649.00, while the price for the Emotiva MMC-1 (package price) is $1099.00 a difference of $450.00. It seems that Outlaw in this particuar situation puts more money into its amplifiers than its preamp/processors and Emotiva is just the opposite. Just thought I would put this out for discusion. Like I said I think both are top notch companies and I am trying to make a decision on which way to go. I was leaning to Outlaw but Emotiva has a 40% trade up discount on new equipment if you are an original owner of one of there preamp/processors. What is cool is you get to keep your original equipment. I am a patient man so I will see if Outlaw will have something similar in the near future as Outlaw is my first choice at this time.

#76139 - 04/05/07 03:40 AM Re: Outlaw vs. Emotiva
gonk Offline

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
This is a matter of much debate as of late. I'll toss out my two cents' worth.

The MMC-1 is derived from a very respectable platform (the Sunfire Theater Grand IV). Feature-wise it is actually a little behind the 970 - less sophisticated bass management, no bass management option for the 7.1 analog input, and non-universal remote. The sound quality should be comparable to the 990 (based on the sound quality of the DMC-1 which also uses the same basic platform). It's a nice package.

The LPA-1 has been widely complemented by owners. Professional reviews are scarce (Audioholics reviewed the LMC/LPA combo, don't know if there have been others). Outlaw's amps cost more at least in part because they are built in the US rather than China. I found myself looking at this picture of the LPA-1 at Emotiva's site today and commented that the LPA-1 doesn't use a toroidal transformer (something that Outlaw does use in all of their amps and in the Model 1070). Jghim pointed out that Emotiva's info page on the LPA-1 refers to a massive toroidal transformer, which is a bit confusing.

I have some reservations about Emotiva, largely due to the LMC-1. It doesn't directly relate to the issue of choosing between 970/7125 and MMC/LPA, but it does relate to Emotiva in general (and to the challenges inherent in developing the next generation of surround processor with the added complexity involved in HDMI v1.3). The LMC-1 is the one surround processor that Emotiva was involved in significant design work, and there have been some worrying problems with it. Even after beta testers identified a problem with the Pro Logic II/IIx implementation, Emotiva shipped the unit without supporting Pro Logic II/IIx with Dolby Digital sources - literally the only instance of this that I have been able to find, and one that does not agree with Dolby's description of Pro Logic II and IIx. This was fixed with a firmware update last summer (installed by shipping the unit back to Emotiva, although an update dongle is promised later this month that should allow the user to install it at home), but it forces a change in bass management behavior (triple crossover can't be used, changes to a global crossover). Surround mode memory is incompletely implemented, and there's been no word whether it will be changed - in fact, it was unclear how surround mode memory worked until a user figured it out last weekend. Perhaps even more disconcerting than the intentionally incomplete Pro Logic II/IIx implementation is the response to a recently-identified DTS-ES bug (described briefly here ). While they should have known better, they initially told customers that their implementation of DTS-ES was correct and that every other receiver and processor manufacturer was in violation of the DTS specs. They have acknowledged the mistake and I believe that units now shipping have a revised firmware version that includes proper DTS-ES behavior, but it's disappointing that they made that claim in the first place. That particular debate led to some other debate at AV123's forum, where I started a thread a couple weeks ago trying to determine exactly what the present state of affairs is with the LMC-1. My original post in that thread included a list of questions, which has since been superceded by this post in that thread.
HT Basics | HDMI FAQ | Pics | Remote Files | Art Show
Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

#76140 - 04/05/07 07:58 PM Re: Outlaw vs. Emotiva
rubbersoul Offline

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 383
Loc: folsom, pa.
I had taken a good year to deceide want amplifer and processor to purchase, from Outlaw, Emotiva, and Rotel.
I am not the kind of guy who understands a lot of the technical jargon hence I had to look up some of the bigger words.
Putting it all togather took some time but looking at and comparing different specifications from three companies put me in the realm of understanding. I think.
I liked the Rotel at first. Sound, performance and style. Then I looked into Emotiva and I was unable to hear or see it in person but read from other Forums on the internet about this product and it came away with good reviews.
One thing I noticed about the reviews on the Emotiva was that another company name always poped up. Outlaw. So I looked into it.
I have to confess that for the last eight to ten years my friend and I visit the Home Theater Shows...from New York to L.A. Outlaw always had impressive demostrations.
So it was pretty easy and more enjoyable to read information from Outlaw regarding the 990/7700.
In the end with reading, and especially reading from this forum and paying attention to Gonk who is on this forum frequently I deceided to go with the Outlaw and I have not regreted the purchase.
When I was sure about something or did not understand the total operation of the 990 I called Steve and that was that.

If it is the money that you are thinking about well you get what you pay for. With Outlaw you are ahead of the game.

Hope that this story helps you make a decession that does not have you wondering if you made a good purchase.
If you do buy the Outlaw.....ENJOY!!!!
Outlaw 990/7700
Conrad Johnson Premier140 Tube Amplifier
Conrad Johnson 17LS MKll Pre Amp
B&W 803D2’s HTM3S DS7's
HSU Subwoofer
Mitsubishi 6800 Projector
Da-Lite Screen,
Oppo BDP93
PS Audio DSD
Stack Variac
Nakamichi cables Audio 8 cables

#76141 - 04/06/07 05:43 PM Re: Outlaw vs. Emotiva
sb-avnut Offline

Registered: 05/09/06
Posts: 99
Loc: Chicago - W. Suburbs, IL
The SQ of the MMC-1 should be better than that of the 970 (as Gonk said - comparable to the 990). So that is something you need to keep in mind.

Also, all the LMC-1 issues are not present in the MMC-1 (totally different platform). Both companies have great Customer Service, so that should be a tie.

One thing about the LPA-1 - it is 125x5 + 50x2 unlike the 7125 which is 125x7 (hence the less cost also - though it is THE amp bargain of the decade!!!). Are you planning 5 or 7 speakers? Not the end of the world even you have 7 speakers as you can always increase the rear back channel levels to match the other 5...

I went with the 7125 even though I use only 5 speakers - I am bi-amping my fronts nad needed the same wattage for all 7 channels. For 125 x7, the 7125 has the best price/perf ratio.
BSMNT HT - Oppo DV-970HD,Tos HD-A2,Emo LMC-1/Onkyo TX-SR705, Outlaw 7125,PSB Image 4T 8C 10S, Outlaw LFM-1+,Panny PT-AE900U, DIY 106" fixed screen

LIVRM 2ch - Philips 963SA,Lexicon DC-1,Carver AV-505,Von Schweikert VR-2,Sony KDF-E42A10

#76142 - 06/03/07 11:08 PM Re: Outlaw vs. Emotiva
og33 Offline

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 185
Loc: White Cloud, Michigan
Gonk...I've wondered about where the LPA-1's toroidal transformer is too? I thought I read somewhere once that the LPA-1's toroidal transformer was contained in the black box in the photo???? Most people who have them rave about them though, regardless of the power transformer.
Pioneer VSX-1120
Salk Songbirds, SongCenter, SongSurrounds
Panasonic BDP-45
Outlaw LFM-2

2 Channel:
Red Dragon M-500 monoblocks
Salk HT-1TL's
Apple TV
Beresford 7520 DAC
Surgex XS10

#76143 - 06/04/07 12:26 AM Re: Outlaw vs. Emotiva
gonk Offline

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
The LPA-1's transformer is a toroid, but it's mounted on its side under a square box.
HT Basics | HDMI FAQ | Pics | Remote Files | Art Show
Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93


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