OK, So I see that the new model 970 has been released and has already won an award.

But what is the difference between the 990 and the 970?

What do you get in the 990 (over the 970) for the extra $400?

And which is the better deal?

I'll add the 970 to my pre/pro chart today or tomorrow. Both have DVI switching, 3 component inputs and transcoding to component, quadruple crossover, a headphone output, and the same processing modes. The 990 adds balanced pre-amp outputs (a plus if you want to use balanced amps), a second zone, some extra inputs, the USB input, and upsampling for stereo sources. There may be some other differences in components (DAC's used and such), and the 970 uses the same "analog or digital" bass management switch as the 1070. I'm not sure yet which is the better deal.

The big question is.....

Are the Component and DVI inputs assignable like the 990 or are they fixed like the 1070??

Looking at the pictures of the back of the 970 it appears that they are not, but I am hopeful.

I'd tend to suspect that they're going to mimic the 1070 rather than borrow from the 990, but we'll know for certain when the manual goes up.

I am very interested in this product. I could care less about the bells and whistles it doesn't have. What I'm interested in is how does it sound. I'm only guessing it sounds the same as the 990 for movies.

Hello All,

Please understand that the Model 970 is not a Model 990 for $400 less. While it's true that no processor below $1000 will offer this type of performance and feature package for just $699, the Model 990 at $1099 has proven the equal of processors costing thousands more in both consumer and professional reviews alike. In fact, later this week one of the most well respected webzines will post a rave review of the Model 990. You can also visit here for a comparison to a unit three times its price!

In addition the Model 990 also adds the following:

1. Expensive state of the art DACs and premium op amps throughout for ultimate audio performance. (This difference will be audible)
2. audio up-sampling to get any stereo source away from the "brick wall filters"
3. auto set up (with microphone included) and ready for auto EQ if we decide on one
4. two way RS232 control for third party systems
5. phono preamp
6. totally independent second zone
7. USB input
8. and yes, assignable DVI switching

With that handy post from Scott, I'll add that I've updated my processor comparison chart to add the 970.

Having spent some time with my 990 and years with the 950 that it replaced, I'd be surprised if the 970 could keep up with the 990 on sound quality - the 990 really does a heck of a job in that department. On the other hand, the 970 looks like it could be considered a direct successor to the 950 (same price as the 950 sold for when it was discontinued) with the current generation's features (things like DVI switching, transcoding to component video, software upgradeability, individual channel distance settings, and power-on volume default) added for good measure.

I would expect the 970 to perform almost exactly like the 1070. The difference being the quality of the amps you attach to it. Someone else on the board reported that the 1070 and 990 were very much similar for surround sound, but the 990 was significantly better for two channel listening. I was just hoping that they made that one little change for DVI/Component assignability.

Personally the 970 looks to be a good fit for me over the next couple of years. It is a relatively inexpensive fix for me until the industry figures out the whole HDMI debacle (not to mention Blue-Ray/HD-DVD).

When will they be sending the remote codes to Harmony??? (just kidding)

That's probably a very accurate summary, brubacca. And with the option of analog or digital bass management (along with the oft-mentioned DVI switching), the 970 will be nearly as well equipped as a you can ask for Blu-ray and HD-DVD (aside from the PS3, I would expect all Blu-ray and HD-DVD players to offer onboard DAC's to go with the mandatory onboard decoding, so a 7.1 input with some bass management options will be a good solution for the early years of our new format war).

I have been comparing the unit and have noticed the following differences right off:

990 Technical Advantages:

7 video inputs (only 5 for the 970)
Dual mono sub analog preouts
USB port
Auto Setup
Lip synch in 1ms increments (10ms increment for 970)
Assignable DVI inputs
Zone 2 capability
Balanced Preouts
Theater Compensation
Assignable Component Inputs
Better DAC in front channels
2 Trigger Outputs (970 only has one)
Phono Input
2-channel Upsampling


970 Technical Advantages:

Fixed Analog Bass Management
Auto Video input selection
4 Coax inputs (990 only has 2)
Individual input level trims
Auto-Polling
Bass/Treble settings per individual video inputs
6.1 or 7.1 capability
Better range of OSD timeout settings
Setup via Front Panel Display


Feel free to correct me if I am wrong on anything.

I might add that the component inputs on the 990 are also assignable.

By the way, it wasn't there earlier, but the 970's manual is now available .

This is kind of a big suprise. One night we are talking what ifs about a possible 970 processor the next afternoon it is on the order page. This is the perfect fit for me I just hope that I can get the combo price since I haven't even got my 7125 delievered yet that I ordered last week.

I ordered the 970 earlier this morning and will be comparing it to the Yamaha 2500 and 990 I will have in my posession soon enough. So far, I think I like some of the features of the 970 better than the 990, but it will most likely come down to sound quality.

rdperry - traditionally Outlaw has honored deals for folks who purchased in the 30 days prior to the deal (the time frame that matches their return policy), so I'd certainly give them a call or an e-mail and see about (1) getting in on the first batch and (2) getting the 970/7125 combo price.

Doug917 - sounds like the making of a very cool three-way challenge. I look forward to hearing how it goes.

I don't know about anyone else but I have always found the 2nd zone to be the least valuble feature in a Processor. I would have liked to have seen balanced output but for $699 it is a steal. I am curious if there is any real change from the 950 other than another component input. That alone is a big selling point to me as it will make it easier for my wife to operate.

Changes from the 950 are many and important. To name a few:

* Four-way crossover replaces three way
* Software upgrade capability
* Lip Sync Delay
* Much more comprehensive control for delay settings
* More modes (Dolby Headphone, etc)
* Three-way settings for the analog bass management
* 100 MHz component video bandwidth
* DVI switching
* CS 49400 DSP vs CS 49326 in the 950

Then again, the 970 doesn't have a green power button. THat is one feature you can't replace!

There's also video transcoding from s-video and composite to the component output and the headphone jack itself. The remote's not quite as nice as the 950's remote, but it's still a universal remote.

I guess upgrading a 950 to a 970 is a no brainer. Especialy if I can get over $600 on E-bay for my old 950.
With the exception of the 100 MHz video bandwith and DSP Conversion, I don't find the other changes that valuable. When I use headphones it will be hooked to my I-pod
I hated the green button anyway.
-------------------------------------------------

Cinepro Amp, Toshiba 65" HDTV, Toshiba DVD, B+W Nautilus speakers and a bunch of other junk

It will be interesting to see if the arrival of the 970 depresses prices in the used 950 market. The 950's seem to have held their value quite well especially since the 990 turned out to be quite a bit more expensive as its "replacement".

I normally just read from the sidelines around here but I must say this model 970 has gotten my full attention. I've been contemplating replacing my old(but trusty) Onkyo receiver(TX-DS777), almost 8 years old now, for awhile now. I've been wanting the 7.1 inputs, software upgradability, newer dsp's and bass management but couldn't justify spending $1500 for a Rotel, NAD, etc, etc, etc. For $699 this sounds like a steal. This will allow me to put my 2nd set of, still new in the box for 3 years now, Klipsch RB-5II's to use as side surrounds in a 7.1 set-up. I am psyched now.

First post on this forum.

I've been saving my nickles and dimes and was all ready to order the 990/7125 combo this week (a bit of budget stress)and then the 970 comes out. Now I'm in a real quandry.

I don't have a need for balanced outputs but I do have a turntable (and about 1,000 vinyl discs)and like the second zone of the 990 to hook up for listening on the back patio, but a $300 savings is sweet plus the monster size of the 990, especially the 17.75 depth, is gonna be a problem in my present rack.

Guys, anyone have any thoughts/remarks that would help me make a decision in the next day or so? I'd like to place my order with Outlaw this week. Thanks in advance.

mzpro5,

Welcome to the forum. Right now all anyone really has is the paper specs of both units to go by. Noone has a 970 yet and has evaluated its performance. If you definately want second zone capability and a phono input, I think your choice is clear though. Go with the 990. If these aren't that important (I would think the phono is with 1000+ records though -- you could always pick up a cheap receiver for patio listening) think about the 970.

MZ, my first post as well!

I was never interested in Outlaw products as I did not like their looks and knew nothing of their performance. Now I am very interested.

I had the same quandry as I wanted to play some vinyl as well and pump some music to the deck, but I just received a phono preamp yesterday that would plug into the 970 that I ordered months ago for a low $65. I like spending $300 less, but I really want good 2 channel sound as well and the 990 chip set is reportedly better and now I'm considering just-going-for-it and combo with the 7125 amp.

The 970 doesn't support upsampling the 990 does.

Also the 970 has analog bass management at 80 hertz if you have an SACD or DVD-Audio player without proper bass management (virtually all of them suck at this)

Interestingly the Cirrus chip supports MP3 decoding but the 1070/970 doesn't expose it. Probably a marketing decision on Outlaw's part (don't want to step on the 990's features too much).

Also in the pdf link it says it does DVD-Audio/SACD bass management (probably ADC/DAC work on the analog signal, yuck!).

Here is the link: http://www.cirrus.com/en/products/pro/detail/P1031.html.

Welcome to this little corner of the 'net, mzpro5 and Big Red Machine. You certainly popped in at an interesting time - I suspect this it just the beginning of the many discussions we'll be having here regarding which is a better choice between teh 970 and the 990. It'll probably take a month or so to get enough first-hand feedback to move the debate beyond theory, but there's already some pretty useful information floating around to help folks make up their minds. Mzpro5, if you happened to already have an old receiver to handle patio duties and didn't mind spending a bit of money on a decent phono pre-amp, the 970 could be a good fit (especially if the 2.25" of extra space behind the unit helps you out), but if you can handle the depth and the MM phono section works with your turntable I suspect the 990 would put quite a smile on your face. For me, the added depth wasn't too big a deal - I'd already had to chop the back off my cabinet for the 950 (even though it's not even as deep as the 970) so I could have access to the rear panel, and I just enlarged the hole a bit. It actually gave me a reason to clean up the cut. Your mileage may vary in this regard, though.

That MP3 support is probably very rarely implemented - you have to have a way to get MP3 files to the chipset, and that's not a real easy process. DVD players generally decode MP3's internally and output PCM, and while the 990's USB input acts as a USB sound card I'm still pretty sure from my experience that the MP3 decoding happens at the PC's media player. You could build in an ethernet interface of some sort so that the processor becomes a network media client, in which case the MP3 decoding would be quite handy, but otherwise I doubt it's very often used.

990 is too large to fit into my Audio Rack... Final decision made.. 970 for me.!

A really good CD player put into the unit on Analog Byass should handle the Audio difference in the two.

First I want to thank you guys for the info while I was making a decision and this should probably go on the 990 forum but this is where I started:

I finally stopped procrastinating and odered the Outlaw 990/7125 combo this afternoon. I considered the new 970 but spent the extra $300 and went with the 990 because:

phono input: I have a pretty good turntable and 1,000 vinyl discs, might as well use them

second zone: Like the idea of running to patio with the second zone

listening habits: I do alot of 2 channel music listening and from the little I have been able to find in comparison it seems like the 990 will offer better sound in 2 channel

proven record: though I have little doubt the 970 will be a very fine pre/pro the already proven history of the 990 held a bit of weight in the decision

Thanks again for your help.

I have been debating between 1070 and 990. Ordered 970 on Monday and it will be here tomorrow the 8th. It is cheap enough to try as I did not need some of the other features found in 990. I hope it sounds better than my Sony STRDA777ES receiver.

One difference not previously noted between the 970 and 990 is the warranty. The 970 has a two year warranty and the 990 has a five year warranty. One reason I turned to Outlaw products is because I was tired of two year warranties, so for me that would be a factor to consider.

I think I saw a post from Scott saying that the 970 warranty was actually three years (the manual apparently had a typo in it), but you do have a point.

Big Red:

You seem to be in an understandable quandry, based on your posts here and over "there".

Why no pair a 970, or even better 990 with your Big Dog?

If you already have the amp, the combination of the two should be great. Of course, if not, a 990/7125 combo with the ability to trade up to one of the balanced amps when they come out is also a wise choice.

Good to see you over on this side of the world. Come on back anytime!

I have got some information together on the performance of these two units and the Yamaha 2500. It can be found here:

http://processors.dblattman.com/

Hmm, the 970 doesn't sound promising and I just ordered it. But hopefully those video problems are like you said, just related to your unit.

Based on the fact that the 1070's been shipping for so long and uses the same video switching, I think it's likely that the unit that Doug got was defective.

I'm sure the video problems are specific to my unit. I will follow up with the Outlaws next week and do some more testing and keep everyone informed with my progress.

Doug, thanks for the great breakdown of the models and what they did well and not so well. Your investment of time and money may go a long way in helping some of us who can't do a side by side test of these units. I have 970 on order and it should be here next week so I will be sure to post my impressions when I get it and get everything up and running. Thanks again.

Doug

Thanks for the comparison. With my 990/7125 combo due in the next 2 days I can hardly wait! Especially after your excellent review of the 990. glad I spent the extra $300.

I posted this on the avsforum the other day:

== I had about an hour to play/listen to my 970 yesterday. I was comparing the 970 to my Sony STRA777ES and let me tell you, 970 rocks! I could not believe how clear the dialogs from center channel were. Finally, I know what front stage should sound like.

To be fair, Sony does not have the latest DD processing options, but good old DD processing on 970 sounded better to me.

After reading Doug’s review, maybe I should upgrade to 990. When will this upgrade bug leave me? ==

I would add that if someone is getting into separates for the first time, the 970 is a great value. I listened to it some more yesterday and I just can't believe my ears! I thought Sony 777ES was the best receiver out there for DD 5.1.

Since my wife also likes and CAN hear the difference (she always thought what we had was better then any of our friend... hence I was not allowed to spend on upgrades), we may upgrade to 990

My wife was most impressed with the difference in 2-Channel music. This is one of the few times she has clearly heard a difference with an upgrade. She also commented on how open movies sound. It makes upgrading so much easier when the spouse can hear and likes the difference.

Unfortunately, it isn't just Doug's 970. My 1070 suffers from the same “white flashes” discussed in his review. And other 1070 owners have similar problems. (You can read a thread about it here .)

Have any other 970 owners seen this problem?

I am not seeing the "white flashes" on my 970. But, I have only used it for 4 hours so far.

Well, finally got the 970 all hooked up and unfortunately I do see the white flashes. I own Toy Story 2, and as Doug said, you can see them in the intro. I also saw a flash during the THX intro.

Anyhow... those that are in contact with Outlaw, what's the latest regarding this issue?

I sent my unit back to them Friday as I am keeping the 990 over the 970, so they should have it by now and be able to do some testing with it.

The component video on my 970 works great - the PQ is outstanding, no white flashes.

I just read the white flash thread on the 1070 forum, and perhaps I am being too quick to validate my 970's component performance. I will have to spend some more time with it to be 100% sure that I don't have a problem.