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#72815 - 03/20/07 05:26 PM Will I even need HDMI 1.3?
rye_guy79 Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 6
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I've almost conviced myself to get a 1070, but it will have to be in my system for sometime as it will be a big step up from what I would normally budget for a reciever.

It sounds like the video side is fairly safe. As long as I can convert HDMI to DVI and pass it through the 1070 and go back to HDMI, I should be able to connect to any display you can get for the foreseeable future.

I have less confidence in my knowledge aboout the audio side of things. The only 7.1 sources I might want HDMI 1.3 for are Blu-ray/HD-DVD, everything else can still be handled by toslink.

Will there be many HD players with 7.1 analog outputs? Or will it be skipped over almost entirely as soon as HDMI 1.3 products become more prevalent? I was expecting more of the current players to have these outputs, or will they come later? I don't expect to be buying an HD player for 2-3 years at least, so I would be shopping for a universal player some time from now and still need the 7.1 analog outputs and proper decoders. (I'm probably over-reacting, it looks like they're even putting composite video outputs on the back of blu-ray players! Who would use those?)


So the short and sweet of it is: Do you expect you will have to (not want to) upgrade beyond DVI and 7.1 analog-in in order to be able to take advantage of most new technology within the next 6-7 years?

Am I just being a nervous-nelly?

Thanks for your input!

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#72816 - 03/20/07 07:01 PM Re: Will I even need HDMI 1.3?
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
As you say, video switching is already covered satisfactorily by the 1070's DVI switching. I'm doing it now with my 990 and an HDMI-to-DVI cable for my Oppo 981HD.

So far, only one or two HD-DVD players have emerged without a multichannel analog output and the only Blu-ray player to lack multichannel analog output is the PS3. We can expect that to remain the case by and large, with a few entry-level players dropping the multichannel analog output for cost. I'd expect early combo HD-DVD/Blu-ray players to include multichannel analog output both to differentiate themselves from those entry-level players (and to help win over the crowd of late adopters earnestly staying out of the format war and away from HDMI v1.3 receivers wink ).

Six or seven years is a fair way out - but even then, the only formats that are going to offer a compelling reason to use HDMI for audio instead of SPDIF are HD-DVD, Blu-ray, DVD-Audio, and SACD. I don't know of anything else that is on the horizon that would join that list. And since those are all likely to have at least some players available with multichannel analog output (ideally all in one chassis if folks like Denon and OPPO Digital can develop true combo players), something like the 1070 could still stay in the mix...
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#72817 - 03/20/07 08:30 PM Re: Will I even need HDMI 1.3?
JHoff80 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 104
I agree with both of you, the audio side is the only reason that HDMI 1.3 is needed. The biggest reason for me will eventually be so that I can get an uncompressed digital output out of my PC, rather than needing to convert to DD/DTS, or using the analog outputs.

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#72818 - 03/20/07 10:15 PM Re: Will I even need HDMI 1.3?
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
That would be slick, but is there any activity on introducing HDMI to the computer? I don't keep very good track of the HTPC realm, but I hadn't heard of any audio cards that would include HDMI. It's probably inevitable, just wondering how close we might be to actual hardware...
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#72819 - 03/20/07 11:02 PM Re: Will I even need HDMI 1.3?
rye_guy79 Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 6
Loc: Alberta, Canada
So do either of you know of any players that have 7.1 output? The only pictures and descriptions I can find seem to indicate 5.1 analog out, like this Samsung player.



Or am I missing something on how Dolby TrueHD, etc. can be transferred without HDMI. I thought I would be matching up 8 connections on the back of the player to the 8 inputs in the 7.1 analog section of the 1070, and using the decoders in the player. Does anything use those two extra jacks in the 7.1 analog input section?

Agreed, seven years is long time. My current "system" is a Philips FR951 Pro-logic receiver I got in grade 11 (1996). I also still use the '94 cavalier I got in high school. It's got 235,000 miles on it now, so I like my gear to last smile

Ryan

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#72820 - 03/20/07 11:24 PM Re: Will I even need HDMI 1.3?
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Panasonic's DMP-BD10 has a 7.1 analog output. So far, the other players have only offered 5.1 analog outputs, with the rationalization (not a good one, in my opinion) that nearly all of the titles currently available are only using 5.1 tracks anyway - sound engineers continue to mix almost exclusively in 5.1 for theaters and nobody seems to want to re-mix for video release to add the rear surrounds. Many HD-DVD and Blu-ray owners have been splitting the surround outputs to go to both side and rear surrounds. Of course, these are still first-gen players, and we're still seeing the new technology issues you'd expect (we still don't have anything that can decode DTS-HD Master Audio, for example). My SWAG: as the formats mature, we'll see two trends - more players that omit analog multichannel output entirely, and more of the players that elect to retain the multichannel output going all the way to 7.1.

If you're still running a 1996-vintage Pro Logic receiver, let me just say that moving to Dolby Digital and DTS alone (not even taking into consideration Dolby Digital Plus, TrueHD, and DTS-HD Master Audio) would classify as an amazing upgrade.
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#72821 - 03/20/07 11:35 PM Re: Will I even need HDMI 1.3?
rye_guy79 Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 6
Loc: Alberta, Canada
My STF-3 needs a new friend to play with! *giggles to self and rubs hand in anticipation*

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#72822 - 03/20/07 11:47 PM Re: Will I even need HDMI 1.3?
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Just to add one more twist to the mess, the HD-DVD and Blu-ray players seen to date have typically offered an interesting trick: take a Dolby Digital Plus or TrueHD track, decode it, and then re-encode it at maximum bitrate DD or DTS. (Toshiba's HD-DVD players have used DTS at 1.5mbps, Sony and I think some other Blu-ray players have used Dolby Digital instead.) We pretty much never get maximum bitrate Dolby Digital or DTS because of the disc space it takes on a DVD, but doing this allows players to connect to DD/DTS receivers using coaxial or optical and offer something very close to the performance of the original audio formats. Extra bonus here: getting a DTS 5.1 or DD 5.1 track via coaxial or optical allows receivers to employ their full DSP bag of tricks, meaning time delay, bass management (the 1070's quad crossovers are far more customizable than anything you'd find available at the multichannel analog output of a player), and surround processing such as Pro Logic IIx to get 7.1 from 5.1 sources. I've heard folks who actually have HDMI v1.1 setups with HD-DVD and/or Blu-ray say that they'd prefer this approach over multichannel analog when using a good receiver or surround processor.
Quote:
Originally posted by rye_guy79:
My STF-3 needs a new friend to play with! *giggles to self and rubs hand in anticipation*
Oh, the STF-3 would really enjoy a 1070.
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gonk
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#72823 - 03/21/07 02:24 AM Re: Will I even need HDMI 1.3?
JHoff80 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 104
Quote:
Originally posted by gonk:
That would be slick, but is there any activity on introducing HDMI to the computer? I don't keep very good track of the HTPC realm, but I hadn't heard of any audio cards that would include HDMI. It's probably inevitable, just wondering how close we might be to actual hardware...
Nothing yet, I'm just banking on the fact its probably inevitable like you said. I think the current HDMI video cards do have an input for the sound card audio to be mixed in, but I haven't been keeping up on this much myself either.

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