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#72062 - 06/03/06 05:16 PM Re: Anyone know when HDMI will come?
DavieJ Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 21
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Quote:
DVI is not going to be around in new products much longer, but at least for video purposes the Outlaw DVI switching will work just fine for HDMI components. [/QB]
Wouldn't this push Outlaw to come out with HDMI sooner then?

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#72063 - 06/03/06 05:30 PM Re: Anyone know when HDMI will come?
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Outlaw's next generation will include HDMI (it's going to have to), but the DVI switching is an excellent solution during the transitional period to HDMI audio (a transition that really just started in earnest about a month or so ago with the arrival of HD-DVD and will only be slowed down by the uncertainty created by the format war). I'm still assuming that the 990, 1070, and 970 will all remain in production through the end of 2007.
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#72064 - 06/03/06 07:57 PM Re: Anyone know when HDMI will come?
DavieJ Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 21
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by westy:
HDMI and DVI are not equivalent for video, DVI is inferior:

See this for details, definate difference:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-dvi-hdmi-hdcp-connections-11-2004.html
Great piece of info westy!! Thanks for posting this!

And I here's another question for gonk: how do you know this stuff so well? I haven't seen a question posted anywhere on this site that you haven't had an answer for!

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#72065 - 06/03/06 08:23 PM Re: Anyone know when HDMI will come?
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
smile - Lots of reading over the years...
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gonk
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Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#72066 - 06/04/06 12:52 PM Re: Anyone know when HDMI will come?
westy Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 34
Loc: Boston MA
HDMI 1.1 already supports everything that should be needed by either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray where the 8 bit limitation makes itself felt (both support MPEG-2 and 4). Here is the MPEG-4 stuff that obviates the issues with DVI:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC

As far as the competing HD video formats: really, from an audio or video output standpoint there is no real difference between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, unlike DSD versus MLP.

As far as hi def audio, HDMI 1.1 supports uncompressed 7.1 192/24 audio, this is really all that needs to come out of either HD DVD or Blu-ray to support any HDMI 1.1 compliant receiver/controller and get the best sound quality (sorry DSD fans, of which I am one, big collection of classical SACDs). Frankly the authoring process has more to do with perceivable sound differences between DSD and DVD-Audio than the formats do.

The other formats are simply marketing B.S. on the output side of the players. These players should handle new formats the way a computer's soundcards does, cards only put out PCM, MP3 or DD regardless of the native format for external devices, the new formats are handled in software.

The only possible reason to pass the native audio formats on to a reciever is to put more encoding information in the bit stream to manipulate sound effects, such as breaking out extra channels etc. Frankly, I don't care about this.

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#72067 - 06/04/06 02:58 PM Re: Anyone know when HDMI will come?
DavieJ Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 21
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
I'd really like to buy the 1070, but I don't know if I can do it knowing it has some soon-to-be-obsolete outputs. After everyone's input, I may have to wait for HDMI to become a little more main stream or look at another manufacturer. I want one so bad, but not bad enough to screw myself.

I think NAD has some models with HDMI switching but it's so hard to get prices on them online to compare apples to apples. I don't think I'd be unhappy with an NAD with HDMI swicthing if the price was reasonable.

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#72068 - 06/04/06 06:17 PM Re: Anyone know when HDMI will come?
Laventura Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 195
Loc: Montréal,PQ
Hi DavieJ,
I've been enjoying the 1070 for a few days now...and it's great for sound...in my small/medium living room...
My mirage speakers never sang like that before...
WOW!!!
but for your dilemma...
I've been enjoying DVI-D for 6 months on my projector...
and who cares if there's something better ???
as far as I know there's a whole link of the dual-link portion of a DVI-I cable that is still unused...
Have you looked at a good high quality analog component signal ?
Even that is more than adequate for most people...
maybe you're not most people...
and you really need to have the best and latest...but remember even HDMI will become obsolete eventually...
the fact that there's still bickering on the audio portion...and new formats of it keep popping up are real turn-offs for me...
not to mention the fact..I like to have my audio and video treated separately...
but hey...that's my opinion...
Good luck with that...
_________________________
Outlaw 1070-Mirage M-290(main)+MCC(center)+Omnisat Micro(sides) nanosat(back)+ +PS12-90(sub)-Technics SL-5 turtable+Cambridge Audio 540P-HTPC - SamsungDTB-H260F HDTV tuner - Optoma HD 20 +100' Draper screen -lots of spaghetti and toys

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#72069 - 06/04/06 07:10 PM Re: Anyone know when HDMI will come?
DavieJ Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 21
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Hey Laventura,
You raise some good points, but I would disagree on one point, what most people would be happy with vs what the people in this forum would be happy with. Even the fact that you have a 1070 with Mirage speakers shows you too aren't happy with what "most" would settle with. "Most" people buy Sony, Kenwood, Pioneer, or whatever else they can get at BB or CC, not quality components like what we are talking about.

There are a few reasons I'd prefer HDMI switching:
1. New video components coming out will have HDMI, not DVI.
2. My HD Cable box AND my LCD tv are HDMI, so I'd prefer to not change the format to DVI just to change it back to HDMI.
3. I'd rather have fewer but higher quality cables running. I actually work in the computer industry and when I build server racks, I work painstakingly at getting the cable done neatly. I guess it's a pet peeve to see messy cables.
4. It's newer, and according to the link posted above, better than DVI of any format, so why not get the best.
5. Because I work in IT, I'm already used to having obsolete hardware before it's in use, but why buy a technology that's already on the way out?

Conclusion, I don't want to be pissed off mad when it does come out that I didn't wait, and then I'll be stuck with old technology. Realisticly, even if I some how obtained a 1050, I'm sure I'd be happy, but I guess you're right, I do want the best, latest and greatest.

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#72070 - 06/04/06 09:11 PM Re: Anyone know when HDMI will come?
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
A few thoughts, DavieJ... For the sake of video, the 1070's DVI switching is DVI/HDMI agnostic - the "conversion" isn't a conversion at all, just a wiring foible. The drawback to the DVI switching isn't the need to switch back and forth between connector types (since in that regard it's no different than HDMI switching) but that the switching is purely video - the audio doesn't pass on or get processed. In the home theater environment, you're not going to need to have the audio pass on to the display (that's why you have the 1070, after all). So what do you lose? For HDMI components such as satellite or cable boxes and DVD players, you lose "one cable" convenience and have to settle for two cables (HDMI-to-DVI and an optical or coaxial digital audio). For HD-DVD and Blu-ray, you lose the ability to get the new formats to your receiver in the digital domain. When the 1070's hardware design was finished, HDMI was barely to v1.1 - I don't know if it was much past v1.0 when the design was laid out. When the 1070 was launched, getting a straight answer on how HD-DVD (now just over a month old) or Blu-ray (now just under a month away) would attempt to use HDMI. Today, we have a good idea on how they'll eventually use them, but the hardware and software that's shipped so far is just scratching the surface - it'll be a generation or so there before HD-DVD hardware starts really using the full capabilities of the format, and we're still waiting for full specs of Blu-ray players to know for sure how well they're going to do.

I say all that to pose a different question (one question, several parts). Do you get the latest and greatest now (which means a handful of receivers that have finally started to implement HDMI audio, at either a higher price point or with audio quality that may not match the 1070's)? Do you get something that offers a really solid feature set and good audio quality now (that'd be the 1070)? Do you not buy anything and wait for the next generation of units comparable to the 1070 to arrive in a year or so with HDMI? I can see arguments in favor of all of them, depending on your personal needs, budget, and long-term plan. Personally, I went with a 990 (already had separate amps) because I can enjoy great audio quality and the convenience of DVI switching now, and when something arrives that is comparable with HDMI v1.x (probably v1.2 or v1.3, assuming v1.3 actually arrives in the near future) I can sell the 990 for a significant percent of what I paid for it (check out what 950's sell for on Audiogon - they originally sold for $900 and were $700 new when discontinued) after having enjoyed its performance for the intervening years. Since I don't plan to get very into either Blu-ray or HD-DVD for at least a year or two anyway, that works out for me. For others, that would not be the correct choice...
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gonk
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Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#72071 - 06/04/06 09:27 PM Re: Anyone know when HDMI will come?
Laventura Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 195
Loc: Montréal,PQ
Well DavieJ,
Jump ! Get HDMI...Enjoy it...
Don't wait too long...
it's sweet stuff...
but you'll still have component, s-video or composite cables running to your display if you don't get the right machine...
you might even have regular analog audio eek ?
Do your homework...for your needs(present and future)
Outlaw is damn sweet stuff !
Even their caps looks good...

Good luck
_________________________
Outlaw 1070-Mirage M-290(main)+MCC(center)+Omnisat Micro(sides) nanosat(back)+ +PS12-90(sub)-Technics SL-5 turtable+Cambridge Audio 540P-HTPC - SamsungDTB-H260F HDTV tuner - Optoma HD 20 +100' Draper screen -lots of spaghetti and toys

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