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#71565 - 11/08/05 10:54 AM Klipsch and Outlaw
erikm12 Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 11
Loc: Shenandoah Valley
Hi all,

I really like what I have read about the outlaw recievers. I have the Klipsch Rf7 set up rated at 102db. My concern like others have posted that I have read is the power in this reciever. Would this reciever be a good match for my speakers?
Being close to 40 I don't crank the volumn up as loud as I used to but I still like it loud.
Basically I will use my setup as 70/30 mostly HT.
Any input is appreciated... smile

What no spell check! LOL..I am a horrible speller.... smile

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#71566 - 11/08/05 11:04 AM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
The Klipsch speakers are extremely efficient - your 102dB efficiency rating is drastically better than the 90dB or so for my Paradigms (which were driven once upon a time by Outlaw's Model 1050 receiver). The Model 1070 should have no trouble at all driving your speakers to whatever level you can stand. (As a bit of comparison, long-time forum member and movie soundtrack engineer soundhound uses some large Altec Lansing horn speakers that are more efficient than your Klipsches - if I recall his setup correctly, 'hound drives his horns in an active tri-amped configuration using tube amps rated at 5W each.)
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gonk
HT Basics | HDMI FAQ | Pics | Remote Files | Art Show
Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#71567 - 11/08/05 11:12 AM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
Cadboy Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 274
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
My 1050 (65w/3ch driven) has been driving bookshelf speakers of average sensitivity(90db), and using a powered sub. It will play plenty loud for me, and I'm close to 40 as well(albeit, North of 40!). 102db is very efficient, and will play very loud. I have a friend with some Klipsch floorstanders driven by an Adcom 125w x2 amp. He used to have annual divorce parties(LOL!) and it would sound like a night club with those things blasting away. My ears felt as if I had just been at a disco and everything sounded muffled afterward. That's dangerous!
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It's all about the hardware!

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#71568 - 11/08/05 12:55 PM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
erikm12 Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 11
Loc: Shenandoah Valley
Great...Thats exactly what I wanted to hear... smile I guess in the very near future I will order me one.

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#71569 - 11/08/05 01:46 PM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
Jed M Offline
Desperado

Registered: 05/02/02
Posts: 526
Loc: Home on the range
I used to use Klipsch KG 4.5's with my old Kenwood and Pioneer receivers way back in the day and they could get so loud they could shake my house. Ah, the good old college days. I am sure those receivers packed less watts than the 1070 does.

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#71570 - 11/10/05 01:55 AM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
JHoff80 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 104
I've got the 1070 paired with KLF20s. Unless your room is abnormally large, you'll have absolutely no problem with the amplifier section of the 1070.

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#71571 - 11/10/05 04:47 AM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
rdperry Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 66
Loc: Dayton Ohio
Hey JHoff80, I am considering the 1070 and was wondering if you could tell me what the sensitivity on your klf20's is and what some of the volume settings you use for your dvd and music listening.
Thanks for the help.

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#71572 - 11/10/05 01:22 PM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
erikm12 Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 11
Loc: Shenandoah Valley
Good question.....I would like to know that also. Still debating if I should go the reciever route or can I pull enough dough together to go with seperates.
With out being able to hear it myself I kinda have to depend on others. Can the average person tell a difference between say the 7125 amp and the 1070 reciever?
I know first hand that in car audio the difference can be huge.

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#71573 - 11/10/05 01:28 PM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
Jed M Offline
Desperado

Registered: 05/02/02
Posts: 526
Loc: Home on the range
I would say an amp in car audio is a much larger difference, but probably because the amps built into stock car stereos really, really, really, suck. That said, I could tell a difference between my old receiver's amps and when I hooked an amp up to it. Same difference as a car amp but much more subtle. More dynamic, effortless, tighter bass, and so on. For reference, on a scale from 1 to 10 I would say the difference adding a amp to a car is a 9 and adding an amp to my home receiver was a 4 or 5. Wasn't night and day but definitely enough that I have no plans on ever going back.

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#71574 - 11/10/05 01:45 PM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
I have to agree with Jed's description - it is a good match with my experience.
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gonk
HT Basics | HDMI FAQ | Pics | Remote Files | Art Show
Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#71575 - 11/10/05 03:17 PM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
erikm12 Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 11
Loc: Shenandoah Valley
Good replys, that might have been the deal breaker that makes me go for seperates. Exactly the info I was looking for. Thanks

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#71576 - 11/10/05 09:20 PM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
rdperry Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 66
Loc: Dayton Ohio
Thanks for the insight Jed. I Think that erickm12 and I are going though the same decision on the best way to upgrade our systems. I guess that after having eight to ten receivers in the last three to four years I would have realized sooner that the upgrade in performance that is realized through going with seperates is the next logical step for me. Erikm12 what do you think of your rf 7's. I have been looking at maybe going with those to start a whole Klipsch set of speakers.

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#71577 - 11/10/05 10:52 PM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
JHoff80 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 104
The Klipsch KLF20's I have have a sensitivity of 100dB per watt (at 1 meter). I normally listen to music at the volume which I set to default, which is -30 dB. This is with the system calibrated using Avia to be at reference levels, so if I'm not mistaken thats 75dB. However, I have turned the volume all the way up to reference level on occasion and haven't had a problem. (I actually haven't ever tried to turn the volume past 0dB, but I don't think it would be a problem.) My level calibrations for the front two speakers are -2 and -3 dB.

The only time I have trouble is when watching TV, but I don't have a cable box, and just use the RF input into the TV, and the TV's output was weak on my old receiver as well. (Normal TV listening needs to go to about -15dB to be comfortably audible.)

Does anyone know what the 1070's volume scale goes up to anyway? I'd assume +10, but I've never really had the need to check. laugh

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#71578 - 11/12/05 08:32 PM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
vicikid Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 13
Loc: Loveland, Ohio
1070's volume goes to +10.

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#71579 - 11/13/05 02:30 AM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
psyprof1 Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 443
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Heretical as it may seem to a lot of people today, any of the HT stuff made by Outlaw, or for that matter alomst everybody else on the market, is grossly overpowered for horn speakers. If a Klipsch or any other speaker (try a Lowther) has a sensitivity rating of 100 dB, that means that with ONE WATT input, in nearfield conditions (i.e., ignoring room effects), the sound level at one meter from the front of the speaker will be 100 dB, which is about the level of sound made by a symphony orchestra playing a fortissimo passage, measured at the conductor's position. That level of sound, sustained for two hours, will result in hearing damage according to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. I've taken my RS sound level meter to live concerts and believe me, 90 dB is about the loudest sustained sound level one hears where I can afford to sit. (In Beethoven anyway; Mahler sometimes gets louder.) Your Klipsch speakers need 100 milliwatts for that. And yet people worry about the difference between 65 and 100 watts. Such a difference, expressed in sound levels, is flat-down inaudible.

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#71580 - 11/13/05 08:38 AM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
painttoad Offline
Desperado

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 688
Loc: peoria il
i agree that the difference between 65 and 100 watts would be inaudible.but,if listening at mid volume and the dynamics pushed it would become audible as clipping.
unless listening at extreme levels,with klipsch,all should be fine.

a few nights ago i had a few too many and as always i had to get behind the stereo.i hooked up directly to the 1050.i think it was 4 days later i was ripping on my speakers(i designed and built(very inefficient)) i noticed a slight balance mismatch.not being one to adjust the balance if not necessay,i once again got behind the stereo to adjust the b&k trim controls only to realize it was not running.i had been running the 1050,and actually pushing it(hard) for probably 4 hours at this point.the 1050 is 65w my b&k is 60w.
the point of this rambling:i had forgot i had hooked up the 1050 to my speakers.if i would not have got behind the system,it would still be running.yes,i noticed a big difference in the warmth,depth and dynamics when i hooked up the b&k amp(twice the price 6x60),but my 1050 is a strong runner,i would only assume the 1070 would follow.

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#71581 - 11/13/05 09:22 AM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
rdperry Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 66
Loc: Dayton Ohio
There is no doubt that the 1050 was an awsome receiver at an great price. I was able to directly compare it to an hk525,pioneer 1014,sony 2000es,Nad752,and a Denon 3805 and it had the strongest most dynamic sound of the bunch. It obviously was dated as far as some of its processing and inputs that is why I felt the need to find a new receiver. The problem for me now with the 1070 is at $899 it almost becomes to close to the outlaws 7125 ($999) or 5 2200($1222) not to pull the trigger on the seperates route. I still have my Nad 752 to handle the processing and when that is not sufficient as far as newer processing modes and inputs is concerned then I am thinking that a year old model of a Yahmaha or Hk can be had pretty cheap as an upgrade as far as processing and inputs goes. I guess that I could be wrong but by already having something that can do the processing my $899 dollars would be better spent towards the seperate amps. Please share any input or comments.

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#71582 - 11/13/05 10:05 AM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
painttoad Offline
Desperado

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 688
Loc: peoria il
go with separates.

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#71583 - 11/13/05 03:56 PM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
brubacca Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/11/04
Posts: 84
Loc: Mount Laurel, NJ
rdperry:

If you are happy with the processing that you have, but want/need more power go with the external amp (or amps). Then in a about 5 years when the whole Blu-Ray/HD DVD thing is sorted out you are ready for a separate processor!


I see you are in Dayton. I spent a great 4 years at UD (Class of 93). Is the Paragon Club still open? (It was a great steak house out by the mall in the mid early 90s)

Regards,
Charlie

PS- there is a place in Springfield, OH called Parts Express. They sell Speaker Kits and the like. You ever hear of them?
_________________________
Charlie,
Outlaw 970, B&K AV5000, Paradigm Ref 20 and CC (V1), Martin Logan Dynamo, Sony 42" RPTV, Toshiba HD-A1

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#71584 - 11/13/05 06:07 PM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
painttoad Offline
Desperado

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 688
Loc: peoria il
PE is MY supplier!i've bought dayton and audax(and misc.) from there.they kick ass! if u r a DIY.

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#71585 - 11/13/05 06:14 PM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
rdperry Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 66
Loc: Dayton Ohio
brubcca, Thanks for the input its good to hear from someone who knows the area. I have heard of the Paragon Club but I am not really sure if it still around. Thanks also for the hint about parts express. I have gotten some great deals on cables and speaker wire there. They have a location downtown by the Dayton Dragons stadium. I have been a little worried that if I use a receiver and not a prepro that I may be missing out on alot of the the benefits that a seperate amp will offer. I like to have a system that sounds good with music as well as one that will have a dynamic impact on my movies and video games. I have read about the upcoming new surround formats for the hd dvds and I cant tell if you need hdmi or some places that I have read say that you will be able to use one of the existing digital inputs on your processer or receiver but will not get the full resoulotion that can be offered. Like you said I guess at this point it is best to wait and see.

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#71586 - 11/13/05 06:14 PM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
brubacca Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/11/04
Posts: 84
Loc: Mount Laurel, NJ
Hi Painttoad..

I really want to try one of the speaker kits that they have. I have not DIYed before although I can solder so that part is fine. You think that the Dayton Silk/Al MTM kit is worth trying? or the Vifa/Al MTM?
_________________________
Charlie,
Outlaw 970, B&K AV5000, Paradigm Ref 20 and CC (V1), Martin Logan Dynamo, Sony 42" RPTV, Toshiba HD-A1

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#71587 - 11/13/05 06:47 PM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
erikm12 Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 11
Loc: Shenandoah Valley
Rdperry,
All my speakers are sitting in their boxes! I'm finishing out the basement and am waiting to get a rec or pre/amp combo and fire my speakers up with that. Kinda gives me incentive to work on the project...lol

I have some old Quartet's that are low lvl Klipsch and love them. When I heard the Rf 7's I knew that was for me. Heavenly. smile I think they had a Rotel amp driving them, I need to go back and look, but I was very impressed with them at the store. Then again I like Klipsch.

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#71588 - 11/13/05 07:11 PM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
painttoad Offline
Desperado

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 688
Loc: peoria il
brubacca ,

i'm more into raw drivers,build my own cabinets.

i'm still workin' on designing x-overs,but the dayton 2-way seems to be a good starting point.

i'm into the 'reference' line from dayton.aluminum cast basket,aluminum(black anodized) cone,solid alum. phase plug.....

click below on 'blade' those are my prototypes.

save time. laugh these are my first homemade speakers.designed ALOT of sub boxes.

http://www.msnusers.com/stereoandtruckphotos/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=71
(use arrows to scan ahead)

call them 000001 & 000002.

and yeah,these things SMOKE my 601s.


laugh cool i am very proud.(this time)!!!!

yes,don't rub your eyes.that is (or are) 2 audio control c-101 eqs.mostly for future use but i thought:why not, got a chance.top one is room response(mic)

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#71589 - 11/13/05 07:33 PM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
brubacca Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/11/04
Posts: 84
Loc: Mount Laurel, NJ
rdperry:
I feel your pain on this one. I am in a similar situation. I have separates now, but they are quite old and I only have Pro-Logic and Dolby Digital. I am at a point where I really want DTS, and PLII. I have decided that I will use Outlaw Equipment as my next processor/receiver, but I can't decide which way to go. On one hand I could get the 1070 and use it while the whole mess is figured out with HDMI, Firewire.. etc.. Then get the processor after the 990. My wife and I are in a small condo now and I really would only need the 1070 so I could consolidate some equipment. The thought is that in the future the 1070 could end up being spun off into the bedroom or elsewhere when we have a house. Another thought is that I could just get the 990 and there is a really good chance that it would hold me over for a long time. The only concern I have about the 1070 is the fact that is doesn't have assignable DVI or Component inputs. Unless I am wrong the way they are assigned it is really only useful to use one or the other, not both. On the 990 they are both fully assignable. I am sure that sonically the 990 is superior, but I'm also sure that the difference is subtle.

Painttoad:
I have no tools and no ability to fabricate my own cabinets. So full on DIY would be difficult. Those sepeakers look great.

Regards,

Charlie
_________________________
Charlie,
Outlaw 970, B&K AV5000, Paradigm Ref 20 and CC (V1), Martin Logan Dynamo, Sony 42" RPTV, Toshiba HD-A1

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#71590 - 11/13/05 07:47 PM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
painttoad Offline
Desperado

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 688
Loc: peoria il
thanks,they sound awesome.would like to put the killer finish on them,but,gotta work on the truck system this winter.already workin' on a set of towers,also(design process)

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#71591 - 11/13/05 08:22 PM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
painttoad Offline
Desperado

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 688
Loc: peoria il
Quote:
Originally posted by brubacca:
Hi Painttoad..

I really want to try one of the speaker kits that they have. I have not DIYed before although I can solder so that part is fine. You think that the Dayton Silk/Al MTM kit is worth trying? or the Vifa/Al MTM?
but to reply... laugh ... i think their kits are a bit pricey.though i would not doubt they would smoke the competition.but for about $150 more than the kit i think you are talking 'bout,you could have a pair of b&w 602s.

it's only money right?the 602s really sound killer!!!

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#71592 - 11/13/05 10:10 PM Re: Klipsch and Outlaw
painttoad Offline
Desperado

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 688
Loc: peoria il
and i will add that i spent ALOT more cash than a pair of speakers would cost!just so i could build my own,friends,,,

i really wanna get out of auto painting.i'd much rather design n build speakers & paint them...it's almost redundant

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