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#71386 - 09/21/05 10:23 PM 2CH Stereo sub and set up issues
808htfan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 17
I just got my 1070 and started calibrating it the other day.

I've read other posts about not being able to reach 75dB, etc while adjusting speaker levels. I'm getting similar results, sort of. Using DVE through my DVD player connected to Coax 1, I have to set my levels to +6/+7 to reach ~73dB at 0dB on the 1070 volume. The odd thing is that is with the OSD saying Dolby Dig EX, which the 1070 automatically selects. BTW, I have just 5 speakers (Front - Paradigm Monitor 5 v.3, Center - Paradigm CC-170 v.3, Surr - Mini Monitors v.2). If I manually change the Dolby mode to just Dolby Dig, the speaker levels read ~3dB lower on my meter, without me having changed anything. Set this way, I would not be able to reach 75dB while the 1070 is at 0dB. I guess I could go higher...

My next issue is Sub output. I used the old VE, not DVE, to calibrate my sub to match my other speakers. That seemed to work out fine. But, while listening to any 2CH source in Stereo (tried CD, my Squeezebox 2, and even the Tuner) the sub much too soft. I wouldn't have known it was on if I didn't see the amp's light go green. My CD and SB2 are using digital ins so I wasn't in Bypass mode. BTW, I left the 2Ch Sub Offset at 0. When I toggled the Stereo mode to 5 Stereo, I could easily hear the sub.

I think that's about all for now. No one else has any of these issues? Especially with 2Ch Stereo? Where do you calibrate your reference level at on the 1070's dial? 0dB? Are your sub levels oddly lower than expected?

EDIT: Forgot to mention my 5 speakers are set to Small w/ the X-over at 80Hz.

Thanks! smile

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#71387 - 09/22/05 01:19 AM Re: 2CH Stereo sub and set up issues
808htfan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 17
Edit: DD/DTS Calibration seems fine.

But 2CH Stereo is still giving me trouble. You guys? frown

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#71388 - 09/22/05 11:20 AM Re: 2CH Stereo sub and set up issues
sparkyfan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 35
Loc: Illinois
Yes, I have exactly these same sub issues. It just isn't there the way the 1050 was. In DD, the performance is remarkable. But switch out to any other mode, especially the PLII and 2 channel modes and the sub goes away. I have to hit the trim and take it up all the way to get the sub back up. In 5 channel stereo it thumps like mad and I have to trim it down. Some of the modes just aren't driving the .1 channel as hard. My 1050 used to light up my Samson amps first 2 lights and occasionally the third (clip) light if I was driving the sub hard. This is actually the way the amps manual says it should be driven. But it is now only lighting up the first light and occasionally the second lamp if its trimmed up.

I wonder if there is anyone out there who owns both unit who could measure the output of the .1 channel and see if there really is a difference.
I think its mode specific. Again in DD the whole house rumbles.

Now I did my calibrations at a little lower levels mainly because we usually don't listen at THX levels. I didn't worry so much about the volume setting and just set my meter to 65 and brought the volume up to 0 on the meter with my center, then brought the rest to the center. THis left my calibration settings more like +2 0 +2 +4 +4 instead of being maxed to the plus side. So then when I couldn't trim up the sub enough for the other modes, I backed the calibration up 2 clicks
0 -2 0 +2 +2 to give me more sub without having it maxed all the time. Probably not the correct way to handle this at all but it got me a little more gain in the low end.
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Sparkyfan

Sony KDS60A3000
Panasonic XP-50
Outlaw Audio 990 Receivers (2)
Outlaw Audio 7125 Amps (2)
Outlaw Audio 7125 Amplifier
Paradigm Studio 40's
Paradigm Studio CC
Paradigm ADP-470
2-SVS 20-39 / S700
Outlaw Audio X13 Ultra
Past Owner of:
Outlaw Audio 1050
OUtlaw Audio 1070
Outlaw Audio ICBM

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#71389 - 09/22/05 12:34 PM Re: 2CH Stereo sub and set up issues
Scott Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 673
Hello All,

This issue is fairly straight forward. I've explained this previously in another thread, but will repost it here for your convenience.

First, we strongly urge you to use the internal test tones on the 1070. They're easier to use and they are very accurate.

The above notwithstanding, there are many variables that could cause skewed results (including mode to mode variations)when using external calibration discs, such as the input type used (muti-channel analog vs. digital vs. analog stereo etc). Also, what surround mode you are in when performing the calibration can have a sizable effect. Using the internal test tones eliminates these variables.

On the 1070 you'll need to make sure you are not set to the multi-channel inputs when calibrating as the internal test tones will be affected by the rear panel bass management switch.

If something here is unclear, just give me a call. I'm here to help.

Best,

Scott

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#71390 - 09/22/05 07:07 PM Re: 2CH Stereo sub and set up issues
808htfan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 17
Thanks Scott.

My calibration seems to be fine through my DVD player using a digital in and DD, DTS, etc. My levels all match and so on.

But the problem with 2CH Stereo seems like it would still exist no matter which way I calibrate, wouldn't it? I figure the sub's level would be matched to the other speakers, and because of that, still be quite low when switching to Stereo. I'll give the internal tones a try when I can, but what am I missing here?
confused

Thanks!

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#71391 - 09/22/05 09:30 PM Re: 2CH Stereo sub and set up issues
sparkyfan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 35
Loc: Illinois
Thanks as well Scott!

"On the 1070 you'll need to make sure you are not set to the multi-channel inputs when calibrating as the internal test tones will be affected by the rear panel bass management switch. "

OOppps.. And my ICBM was initially in line there to boot... Now there's an eye opener. I don't remember being in that mode but all my initial listening was with some DVD-a's. Back to the tones...

I should mention in all fairness that my listening room is 28x32. And even though that does present some challenges, the 1070 has had NO trouble filling the room with sound, and the room next to it, and the, well you get the picture.. Also, I have purchased a second sub (20-39) to hook to the unused side of my Samson amp. So that should help. There goes the neighborhood :-)
_________________________
Sparkyfan

Sony KDS60A3000
Panasonic XP-50
Outlaw Audio 990 Receivers (2)
Outlaw Audio 7125 Amps (2)
Outlaw Audio 7125 Amplifier
Paradigm Studio 40's
Paradigm Studio CC
Paradigm ADP-470
2-SVS 20-39 / S700
Outlaw Audio X13 Ultra
Past Owner of:
Outlaw Audio 1050
OUtlaw Audio 1070
Outlaw Audio ICBM

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#71392 - 09/23/05 12:58 AM Re: 2CH Stereo sub and set up issues
808htfan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 17
Ok, just used internal tones and all levels were within ~1dB of each other. Sub was the same. Now, I should clarify that DD, DTS, etc through my DVD player connected digitally via Coax 1 are pretty much ok.

The problem is with 2CH Stereo on any input connected via digital or analog. The sub level, using the same calibration values from above, is much too low. It's not just my personal taste coming into play here, like I said before, it's so low I thought it was off the first time.

Am I still missing something?

Scott, what are your hours? I'd have to call after 1PM Hawaii time.

Thanks for any suggestions!

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#71393 - 09/23/05 07:31 AM Re: 2CH Stereo sub and set up issues
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
What material are you listening to in stereo? The only source of data for the sub when in that mode is via the crossover - your 80Hz setting should yield some data, but it is not necessarily going to be much (possibly nearly none at all, depending on the material being played).
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#71394 - 09/23/05 08:01 PM Re: 2CH Stereo sub and set up issues
808htfan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally posted by gonk:
What material are you listening to in stereo? The only source of data for the sub when in that mode is via the crossover - your 80Hz setting should yield some data, but it is not necessarily going to be much (possibly nearly none at all, depending on the material being played).
Just some music, rock, reggae, local stuff, etc. I don't think the crossover point is the problem. My other receiver had the same 80Hz setting and things sounded much different using the same source material. BTW, when switching from 2CH Stereo to 5CH Stereo it's almost as if the sub goes from Off to On. The difference is that dramatic.

Also, like sparkyfan mentioned, I noticed that the sub is low in all of the Dolby PLII/PLIIx modes. Only DD, DD EX, DTS, and DTS ES seem fine.

confused

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#71395 - 09/27/05 05:04 AM Re: 2CH Stereo sub and set up issues
808htfan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 17
Another thing I found out is that the 7.1 inputs also lack sub output while set to Digital or the 80Hz analog crossover. I tested it out with an SACD. My player was set to all Large for the speakers and Sub was Yes, 1070 was still set to all Small and Sub Yes. Tried the 2CH Stereo and Multi CH SACD tracks as well as the normal CD layer. Could something be wrong with my 1070?

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#71396 - 09/27/05 11:05 PM Re: 2CH Stereo sub and set up issues
SternFan Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 11
Loc: Denver area
The problem is how your speakers are set up in the receiver. Switch them to Small and then the crossover points will be handled by the 1070.

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#71397 - 09/27/05 11:35 PM Re: 2CH Stereo sub and set up issues
808htfan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally posted by SternFan:
The problem is how your speakers are set up in the receiver. Switch them to Small and then the crossover points will be handled by the 1070.
Hrmm, actually they are set to Small in the 1070. It's the player I have set to Large.

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#71398 - 09/29/05 10:00 PM Re: 2CH Stereo sub and set up issues
sparkyfan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 35
Loc: Illinois
808htfan, any progress yet?? I'm in the same boat as you. (looking for low end that is)
_________________________
Sparkyfan

Sony KDS60A3000
Panasonic XP-50
Outlaw Audio 990 Receivers (2)
Outlaw Audio 7125 Amps (2)
Outlaw Audio 7125 Amplifier
Paradigm Studio 40's
Paradigm Studio CC
Paradigm ADP-470
2-SVS 20-39 / S700
Outlaw Audio X13 Ultra
Past Owner of:
Outlaw Audio 1050
OUtlaw Audio 1070
Outlaw Audio ICBM

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#71399 - 09/30/05 07:49 PM Re: 2CH Stereo sub and set up issues
808htfan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 17
sparkyfan,

No, not yet. Steve has sent me a few suggestions, I'm going through them now. Most of them I've already done, though.

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#71400 - 12/03/05 05:05 PM Re: 2CH Stereo sub and set up issues
John Galt Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 139
Loc: Canada
Hey pardners,

I'm just about ready to pull the trigger and order me up an Outlaw 1070...is the sub output with stereo/7.1 inputs still a problem?

Thanks,
John

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