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#68580 - 08/30/08 01:06 PM Re: Zone 2/Additional Amplifier/Outdoor Speakers and Sub Setup
Hullguy Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 380
Loc: South Weymouth, MA USA
I think for what you are trying to do you should go in a different direction. I'd start here

[url=dhttp://www.nilesaudio.com/docs/DesignGuide/NILES_ZR_SysDesign.pdf][url=dhttp://www.nilesaudio.com/docs/DesignGuide/NILES_ZR_SysDesign.pdf][url=dhttp://www.nilesaudio.com/docs/DesignGuide/NILES_ZR_SysDesign.pdf]dhttp://www.nilesaudio.com/docs/DesignGuide/NILES_ZR_SysDesign.pdf[/url][/url][/url]
All the wiring is done in cat5 which will save some money on cabling.

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#68581 - 08/30/08 01:33 PM Re: Zone 2/Additional Amplifier/Outdoor Speakers and Sub Setup
edcrash1 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 81
Loc: Fairfield, CT (Suburb of NYC)
Gonk, Koyaan, Mzpro5 (and Hullguy), thank you all very much for your initial and additional responses. I appreciate that you took the time write detailed and thoughtful responses. I believe I have enough background information to plan and install a solid outdoor system. If any of you are near Westport CT next summer, look me up and we could have some bar-b-que and beers while listening to the outdoor system (and my indoor system too). One thing that sucks about my new CT home from my roots in CA is that the winter weather prevents year-round backyard enjoyment (admittedly though it does help to be able to tell the wife we can delay the purchase until spring)! Thanks again.

P.S. Gonk, there are several company's making outdoor subwoofers, including Boston Acustics. You can search the net for products and reviews. I have 2 1/2 acres and my usable entertaining and play areas are about 400 ft wide, so I thought a couple good subwoofers would help fill in the backyard area (along with 6 "good quality" speakers in three listening "zones").
_________________________
Outlaw 990/7700/2200(2)
NHT M6(3)/L5(4)/U2(2)/A1(2)/X1
Samsung LN-T5265F(LCD)/BD-P1200 (BluRay)
Apple TV w/750 gb HD music server
Universal MX-810
Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR
Blue Jeans Cables

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#68582 - 08/30/08 02:04 PM Re: Zone 2/Additional Amplifier/Outdoor Speakers and Sub Setup
mzpro5 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 240
Loc: The Northcoast
edcrash

Hope your neighbors are either music fans or don;t live too close. wink laugh
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Behringer A500
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#68583 - 08/30/08 06:34 PM Re: Zone 2/Additional Amplifier/Outdoor Speakers and Sub Setup
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
I checked out Boston Acoustics' site and saw their outdoor sub. It's a passive sub (not surprising) and is meant to be paired with their SA1 amp (which can apparently drive two subs). The good news is that the amp has an adjustable crossover, although it is low-pass only (the signal going to the other speakers remains full-range because there's no high-pass crossover and no output for it anyway). That's not likely to be an issue in your outdoor installation, as you can simply let those outdoor speakers roll off anyway, but it isn't something I'd want to rely on for a more "critical listening" system. The other issue here is that it doesn't have speaker-level inputs. You will need to split the pre-amp signal (coming from the 990) and send the signal to both the sub amp and the speaker amp. It's a little more spendy than I'd anticipated (list prices are $1000 each for the passive subs and $600 for the amp), but it could be made to work.

You could theoretically split the 990's zone 2 output and send separate signals to the SA1 and the Channel Vision A1260, then power up to two subs and up to six sets of speakers. You'd still need to address volume control. It's going to end up being more expensive, but the Niles ZR solution would actually address things even more gracefully: connect the zone 2 output to a Niles unit, put in local control panels in each space and run Cat5 back to the unit, connect existing speaker wire and run new speaker wire for the outdoor stuff, and use the separate preamp output (which seems to be standard on these units) to feed the SA1 sub amp. You could even have a couple separate sources just for the distributed audio system, and could select between them for each space.
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#68584 - 08/31/08 01:42 PM Re: Zone 2/Additional Amplifier/Outdoor Speakers and Sub Setup
edcrash1 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 81
Loc: Fairfield, CT (Suburb of NYC)
Hullguy (and Gonk), I refreshed myself with the Niles system. Although it is quite robust, I really can't incorporate it at this stage. My house is already built and the wife would not allow me to incur the expense nor tear apart her fully decorated house for "my" silly stereo system when she would be more than satisfied with the cost and quality provided by a Bose Wave Radio. So, unfortunately, Niles is a non-starter.

On the other hand, the Channel Vision A1260 looks kind of interesting. I could use that to run all my 4 existing indoor zones and possibly 2 outdoor zones, and use my two extra 7125 (or soon to be 7200) to power the outdoor subs which I believe could use the extra power. I am wondering though if the Channel Vision A1260 will provide enough power for the Paradigm or Boston Acoustics rock speakers (the two I am considering at this early stage given fairly positive reviews I have read)--I am not quite adept enough at this stage in my hi-fi understanding to "know" whether the power would likely be sufficient. In any event, I doubt I will be getting the Boston Acoustics outdoor subwoofers because they seem quite pricey to me too considering they will be used outside and then only occasionally given the short outdoor season in CT.

And, Mzpro5, one of the benefits of moving to CT from Southern California is that I went from neighbors nearly on top of me (even with what was considered a "large" lot) to neighbors that I basically cannot see! So, hopefully, the sound in my outdoor system will not travel that far and through the trees--besides, my wife will be the additional regulator on volume!

Again, thank you all for your thoughts.
_________________________
Outlaw 990/7700/2200(2)
NHT M6(3)/L5(4)/U2(2)/A1(2)/X1
Samsung LN-T5265F(LCD)/BD-P1200 (BluRay)
Apple TV w/750 gb HD music server
Universal MX-810
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#68585 - 08/31/08 03:31 PM Re: Zone 2/Additional Amplifier/Outdoor Speakers and Sub Setup
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Recommended power ratings are always problematic in my mind. The Boston Acoustics rocks, for example, list "10-150W" as the recommended power - that's a pretty wide range. Both company's speakers seem to be coming in around 89dB efficient, though, so 60W would seem like a reasonable power level for either brands' "rock" speakers.
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#83414 - 04/25/10 11:33 AM Re: Zone 2/Additional Amplifier/Outdoor Speakers and Sub Setup [Re: gonk]
edcrash1 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 81
Loc: Fairfield, CT (Suburb of NYC)
This is a revival of an old post wherein Gonk summarized his thoughts as follows:

Originally Posted By: gonk
I've thrown a few ideas out, but I did it without much real order. Let's review that list of questions from Wednesday and see if I've answered many of them...

[list=1]
1. A "distribution amp" (at least the ones I've seen) may still need to have the input signal split beforehand, but it probably depends on the amp. I have seen a Channel Vision amp (the A1260, 12x60W at 8 ohms) that offers both separate local inputs for each pair of amp channels and a separate global input, however, and an amp like that would let you hook the 990's zone 2 output to a single point and drive as many as six pairs of speakers from that one amp with no splitters. An amp like that could potentially serve all of your indoor and outdoor amplification needs in one chassis, although you'd still need to address volume control in each space.
2. I've touched on this a bit already, but I'll toss out one other possible idea: get a Model 7075, split the zone 2 output several ways, and let each outdoor speaker have its own channel on the 7075. No integral gain controls, but it's an amp that should very effectively give you optimal performance from any outdoor speaker (or indoor second zone speaker) you might have.
3. Typically, gain control on amps is not the same as a pre-amp volume control, so it probably isn't adding gain to the incoming signal - just turning down the gain when asked to.
4. I'm no expert on these, but the link above is where I'd start my research if I was hunting for something along these lines.
5. We've also covered this one already, I think.
6. Not really - you'll need a sub with speaker-level inputs and outputs on its amp, and there should be some crossover adjustment available so you can "dial in" the crossover you need. The adjustment is standard on powered subs, and the speaker-level are very common (although not used everywhere).


With respect to Gonk's thoughts about splitting the Zone 2 output several ways so that I could run an Outlaw 7075 or perhaps the 7125 or some other multichannel 75 watts plus amp, I have the following three questions: (i) where can I find a multichannel splitter (I am aware of Y splitters, but not multi-channel splitters);(ii) what kind of base and stereo management is availalble if using a multchannel splitter so that I can use the same multichannel amp to power the setup for simple stereo with up to 3 sets of speakers and a subwoofer (will the Outlaw ICBM work for such a multichannel stereo setup?); and (iii) where in the system would the base/stereo management go?

On a related note, the Channel Vision A1260 seems like a great choice especially because it has a 1 input/6 output option, but I am concerned that it only has 60 watts per channel and I am afraid 60 watts may be underpowered for a large outdoor area. Therefore, another multichannel amp with more power but with a similar 1 input and multiple outputs might work too. Anyone know any high powered amp that has such an option? Of course, I will still have the base management issue, but I believe the Outlaw ICBM will work fine in this type of configuation where there is need for only one set of stereo outputs (that feed the 1 input/multiple output amp) and one subwoofer output that would likely feed a dedicated subwoofer amp (possibly a plate amp) with even more power. Any additional thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.


Edited by edcrash1 (04/25/10 12:15 PM)
_________________________
Outlaw 990/7700/2200(2)
NHT M6(3)/L5(4)/U2(2)/A1(2)/X1
Samsung LN-T5265F(LCD)/BD-P1200 (BluRay)
Apple TV w/750 gb HD music server
Universal MX-810
Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR
Blue Jeans Cables

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