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#67641 - 02/28/08 06:47 PM Re: Got Surround Blues, help??
mdrconsult Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 126
Loc: Austin, Texas
I had a weird lip sync issue when I first set up my 990. As Altec stated generally lip sync issues happen due to the difference in processing time for audio vs. video and almost always it is the audio that is presented ahead of the video. However, in my case I was actually getting the audio behind the video, which meant the 990 could not adjust for it correctly. After digging around and speaking with Scott at Outlaw I discovered that it was due to a bad auto calibration. I know this sounds weird but when I went and looked at the the delay settings there would be a very strange value set for the sub's distance. Once I set that to an appropriate value the lip sync issues were resolved.

In reviewing the other posts I noticed that Skyblazer was also able to resolve lip sync issues with a recalibration. I suspect that he was having the same problem that I was having.

So just for grins, take a look at the delay settings for your speakers and see if the sub's distance is set to something that looks obviously wrong and if so correct the distance and see if that fixes the problem.
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Emotiva XMC-1, Outlaw 7500, Sonus Faber Olympica III Fronts, SF Liuto Center, SF Surrounds, LFM-1 EX, Oppo BDP-103D, Apple TV (Gen. 4), Mitsubishi 65" Diamond DLP, Outlaw Cables, PS Audio Power Quintet, Duet and power cords.

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#67642 - 02/28/08 07:37 PM Re: Got Surround Blues, help??
UMtiger Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 59
Loc: Memphis, TN
Thats a very interesting comment, for I got the same advice from Scot once also. However it did not fix it.

I do not have a sub, so there is no calibration done for one.

Just curous, the speaker distance settings in the dvd and the 990 are different. Would that cause a problem?

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#67643 - 02/28/08 07:59 PM Re: Got Surround Blues, help??
rance Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 06/09/04
Posts: 99
Loc: Boston. MA
Don't know if this will help, but I let my 990 handle all speaker distances and crossovers (don't set them in the dvd player), and run all my video direct to the tv. It may just be luck, but I have no lip synch issues with either my hd-dvr or dvd player (auto or manual calibration).

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#67644 - 02/28/08 09:07 PM Re: Got Surround Blues, help??
Alexandru Mihaita Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 132
Loc: Springfield, PA
In general, if one sets the delay in the DVD, and that delay happens to be more than needed, then the 990 will not be able to compensate, as it can only apply a delay, not an "advance".
As a rule of thumb, as rance suggets, don't apply the sync delay in two places.
Abandon all the adjustments made in the DVD player and do them all in the 990.
In general, my eperience with the 990 showed me that its auto calibration is not stellar. It got put on the wrong path by the wall refeactions, in my case.
In my experience, nothing beat a tape rule for distances and an SPL meter for levels.
Other than that, I find the 990 to be a superb piece of equipment.

Just my two cents...
_________________________
Alex

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#67645 - 02/29/08 05:26 AM Re: Got Surround Blues, help??
mahansm Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 91
Loc: Panama City, Florida
It is really difficult to output a signal before it has arrived at the inputs...
Anyone who figures out a solution to that particular problem has several rather large fortunes awaiting them.

With tongue firmly in cheek.
_________________________
Outlaw 990/7500/LFM1+/2xLFM1 EX
Kef 107 with KUBE
Kef XQ2c center
Kef 3005 surrounds
Samsung HL-67a750
Sony BDP-S301 Blu-Ray
Toshiba HD-A2
Denon CD
Harmony 880
Comcast HD DVR with external drive
Nintendo Wii

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#67646 - 02/29/08 05:47 PM Re: Got Surround Blues, help??
Altec Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 334
Quote:
Originally posted by mahansm:
It is really difficult to output a signal before it has arrived at the inputs...
Anyone who figures out a solution to that particular problem has several rather large fortunes awaiting them.

With tongue firmly in cheek.
All digital signals have some delay to the ultimate output, regardless of how they're processed, or not. This latency is taken advantage of for example in the current "brick wall limiters" used in the mastering of rock CDs. They analyze the digital signal as far ahead as they can (the period of latency) and therefore know what the audio signal is going to do before it is actually "heard". They then can intelligently apply processing based on the "future".

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#67647 - 03/01/08 12:10 AM Re: Got Surround Blues, help??
mahansm Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 91
Loc: Panama City, Florida
I was thinking more of real time digital control applications, where access to the feedback signal at time T-1 would make life vastly easier for the designer.
_________________________
Outlaw 990/7500/LFM1+/2xLFM1 EX
Kef 107 with KUBE
Kef XQ2c center
Kef 3005 surrounds
Samsung HL-67a750
Sony BDP-S301 Blu-Ray
Toshiba HD-A2
Denon CD
Harmony 880
Comcast HD DVR with external drive
Nintendo Wii

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#67648 - 03/01/08 12:29 AM Re: Got Surround Blues, help??
alphanstein Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 116
Loc: San Diego, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by UMtiger:
alphanstein
settings within the dvd player:
speaker distance 10 ft
audio output 2 channel
digital, dolby,dts, all on
linear pcm off
This is why I was asking, you do have a player that can adjust for speaker distances and you do not want to adjust them here and also in the 990. What your doing is causing the DVD player to delay the audio by setting it to 10ft and then the 990 also adds a delay based on it's auto calibration setting. In theory, the DVD's delay should only apply to its analog outputs, but it may be affecting your digital outputs also.

My recommendation, zero out all the speaker distance settings in your DVD and set all the speakers to large.

Measure the speaker distances from your listening position and then manually put these into your 990 settings only, with no lip synch delay to start. Then you should start from there to see if you have a lip synch delay on a source that you previously viewed and experienced such.

Auto calibrate gets thrown off in the lower frequencies so even with out a sub, if your speakers are full range and can produce lower level sub 60Hz tones, then it can affect your auto calibrate results from what I have experienced and also seen posted by others here.

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#67649 - 03/01/08 04:39 PM Re: Got Surround Blues, help??
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
I've been meaning to try to offer something useful to this thread this week, but my schedule has conspired against me... shocked

UMtiger is using the digital output from his Pioneer, and as such would be getting an undecoded bitstream for Dolby Digital and DTS. That arrangement would bypass any delay settings in the player. Setting them all to zero can't hurt, but if the player is operating as it's supposed to it shouldn't be applying those delays anyway.
_________________________
gonk
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