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#58128 - 02/24/06 09:27 PM A few simple questions regarding bass management
robwas Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 16
Loc: Spotswood, NJ
These should be easy for anyone that knows how the 990 handles signals, I'll post them here in the hopes that I can get an anwswer without emailing or calling outlaw. My questions are specifically in reagard to bass management and what happens to the .1 channel of a dolby 5.1 sound track in a few situations.

First scenario, I set my front mains to cross over at 60 hz and my center channel at 80 hz. I understand everything from those frequencies on down will be sent to the LFE channel, however, does this also cut the frequencies of the LFE (.1) channel's content to 60 or 80 hz as well? If so, that'd mean removing some information totally, right? In addition, is any of the .1 channel sent BACK to the main speakers (presumably content over 60 or 80 hz) if this is how it works? Lastly, will there be overlapping of the same bass content in both the center and mains plus the subwoofer in any possible configuration?

Second scenario, Main speakers set to large, subwoofer set to "off". I'm assuming running this sort of configuration would send both the LFE channel's content and all the bass to the front mains. With this in mind, wouldn't it be possible to hook up the mains and sub through a dedicated (external) crossover and accomplish exactly the same thing as setting the 990 to "small" with appropriate crossover frequencies?

Thanks for reading,

Rob

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#58129 - 02/24/06 10:12 PM Re: A few simple questions regarding bass management
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
In the first scenario, each channel's low frequency data (under 60Hz from mains and under 80Hz from center) is added to the LFE track, but the LFE track itself is not subject to any crossovers and so remains unaltered. Likewise, no data is directed to channels other than the sub when a sub is present, so there is no overlapping bass (also called "double bass" sometimes).

In the second scenario, an external crossover could be used along with large mains and no sub to reproduce the behavior produced by small mains, but it would provide no benefit while also adding quite a bit of compexity - a separate component, a couple steps of manipulation applied needlessly to the LFE track, and some extra bouncing around for data crossed over from the other channels (center, surrounds). I wouldn't recommend it.
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#58130 - 02/25/06 12:04 AM Re: A few simple questions regarding bass management
robwas Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 16
Loc: Spotswood, NJ
Hey, thanks a lot for clearing this up gonk, I'm assuming that with stereo sources everything behaves the same way minus the .1 track which would not be present. I'm actually quite happy things were designed this way, it made the most sense to me when I started thinking about it.

I wasn't intending to do external crossovers to replicate what the unit does inside, it just occured to me that it'd be the same thing. If anything I think having huge full range front mains would be great if space/placement wasn't a problem. Settings speakers to "small" and directing some of the bass destined for the other speakers almost seems like a hack, or at least not how DD was intended for theaters (even though it's a great option for HT setups)

If it's of any interest, I posted here awhile ago when I first got my 990 about the video transcode to component from s-video. Outlaw actually sent me another unit, I tried it and it really wans't much better but at least I had peace of mind that mine's not defective. It's not a big deal, I hooked up an extra cable to the tv for those few times I won't be using a component source.

On a happy note, I'm really happy with the audio performance of the unit, I've decided to use all digital inputs so all the bass management problems aren't of any consequence now. As you found (and I realized later that you actually wrote that 990 review I read), I like the upsample mode for stereo sources, not sure why it sounds so different but it does, maybe it's a bit brighter too but it sounds a lot more open and airy than just stereo or bypass. I don't have the best speakers hooked up to it, maybe I can convince my cousin to bring over his new Martin Logans to do some more critical listening.

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#58131 - 02/25/06 12:43 AM Re: A few simple questions regarding bass management
BloggingITGuy Offline
Desperado

Registered: 02/20/06
Posts: 446
Loc: Beaverton, Oregon
As far as I know, theater speaker systems are also set up using the same principles (80hz crossover on the mains and surrounds and everything below going to the subs, at least per THX spec).

I can't think of a single floor standing speaker that is THX certified.

Of course in a perfect world, we'd all have the same sound gear they use in the IMAX theaters...now that's some really cool hardware.

Hmm, perhaps they should come out with an IMAX certification for home theater gear, hehe.

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#58132 - 02/25/06 01:01 AM Re: A few simple questions regarding bass management
Keta Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/29/02
Posts: 358
Loc: Central VA
Quote:
I can't think of a single floor standing speaker that is THX certified.
Looking on THX's site shows some floor standers listed. Atlantic Technologies 8200 for example.

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#58133 - 02/25/06 03:29 AM Re: A few simple questions regarding bass management
BloggingITGuy Offline
Desperado

Registered: 02/20/06
Posts: 446
Loc: Beaverton, Oregon
Technically those are not floor standers as it's really a subwoofer pedestal (PedWoofers) and speaker that are sold as separate units.

Similar to Monster's high end speakers on the sub pedestals.

When I think floorstanding speaker, I think of a speaker that is sold as one unit that sits on the floor and does not need stands or wall mounts to project sound to the proper listening position.

I don't think you will find a single THX speaker that is a true floorstander.

At least not for the Ultra specs. As the requirements for controlled vertical directivity are relaxed for the Select spec, you would be more likely to see Select floorstanders.

As I'm sure that any THX Ultra speaker manufacturer must assume that their speakers may be used behind a screen, a one piece true floorstanding design just isn't an option.

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#58134 - 02/25/06 07:29 PM Re: A few simple questions regarding bass management
robwas Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 16
Loc: Spotswood, NJ
What's funny is I recently attended an IMAX show in Long Island, just to see the new Mars movie in the dome. They do a speaker desmonstration at the beginning of every show, it's impressive, it's loud, but the sound quality I thought was way lower in quality than my home speaker system. I think in movie theaters you'll often see quantity over quality, loud efficent horn speakers rather than better sounding ones. Another thing that irked me was the projector sound! You'd think in such an expensive installation they'd find a way to muffle the sound or use active cancellation. I could hear it throughout both movies clearly. But getting back to what I was saying, I'd actually be disappointed if my home theater system sounded just like IMAX theaters.

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#58135 - 02/25/06 09:05 PM Re: A few simple questions regarding bass management
Keta Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/29/02
Posts: 358
Loc: Central VA
Quote:
I don't think you will find a single THX speaker that is a true floorstander.
Listed on the THX site, these seem to fit the bill, including Ultra2.

I would disagree about speakers with "Pedwoofers" not being concidered floorstanding. My NHT T5's use the seperate cabinets but are designed to be used together as one speaker......a floorstander.

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#58136 - 02/25/06 09:17 PM Re: A few simple questions regarding bass management
BloggingITGuy Offline
Desperado

Registered: 02/20/06
Posts: 446
Loc: Beaverton, Oregon
I stand corrected on the Snells, definitely an oddball in the THX cert speaker market.

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