Hi Folks,

I have been lurking out there for a couple months now, and unfortunatly I came down with a case of upgradeitis which is pretty bad so I'm looking for some suggestions on getting well and setting up my new toys. Steve convinced to buy the 990 particulary when he told me that a room equalizer software upgrade was going to be available shortly for the 990. Ok so here is what is what is on it's way:

Outlaw 990 Processor
Outlaw 7500 Amp
Outlaw 2 LMF1 Subs
Velodyne SMS 1 Equalizer
Denon 3910 DVD Player DVI capable
Sony ES SCD-C2000ES 5-disc CD/Super Audio
Outlaw Balanced cables
Outlaw Sub cables

Here is what is staying:
Rocket RS750 Fronts will upgrade to RS850'S later
Rocket RC200 Center
Rocket RS750 Surrounds
Monster 5100 Power center
Sony XBR 60" Rear LCD with DVI
2 Comcast HD cable boxes with DVI
Pioneer Elite DVR/PVR with Tivio one cable box dedicated. Only S-vidieo available.
I may or may not keep the Earthquake Supernova Sub.

What is going upstairs to the bedroom.
Sony ES3000 Reciever
Sony NS999ES DVD/SACD Player
Most likely the Earthquake Supernova Sub

So as you can see I have a real bad case of upgradeitis that hopefuly can be cured, any suggestions, experiances, and tips on connecting all this are greatly appreciated!

Merlin

Nice system! That should be a most effective treatment for your case of upgradeitis. Having spent a good bit of time with the SMS-1, I suspect that you won't need anything else for room equalization. It only works for the subwoofer, but it is a great tool for that.

Looks good to me Merlin. My RS1000s sound great with my 990/Outlaw amps. Curious why you decided to go with the LMF1 sub over the Rocket offerings. Only other thing to watch out for is macro-blocking with the 3910 and your Sony LCD.

Hi Obie,

I went with the LMF1 because I heard the Rocket 12" sub and wasn't impressed. I like the sound of the Hsu subs or the SVS and since Dr. Hsu was involved with the design I think the LMF1 are probably a better choice. If not they will go back and I will probably go with SVS I had heard about the macro-blocking on the 3910 but I couldn't find anything specific about it on my set so I ordered it since secrets give it there highest rating as well as audioholics although I take audioholics with a grain of salt.

I'm surprised you didn't ask me why I didn't consider the AV123 bigdogs.

Merlin

OK I'll bite why didn't you get the Big Dogs?
Our systems are pretty similar except I have an SVS sub.

Merlin,

You and I have similiar equipment. I have the 990/755 with Rocket 760's (850 Sigs arriving tomorrow!) and a Denon 5900. The Denon 3910 and 5900 are very similiar and the macroblocking issue has never really affected me. Although I can see it (rarely) on certain dark passages (I use a Panasonic HDTV) the overall picture quality is amazing...very HD like! Additionally, the sonics from these units are incredible...you will not be disappointed.

I let the Denon do the bass management and Digital to Analog conversion (D/A) by selecting "small" in the Denon's setup menu and connecting through the 7.1 analog inputs on the 990. You then need to select "large" in the Outlaw 990 to bypass its bass management on the 7.1 inputs. Althought the 990 is a very capable performer, I have found audio (specifically two-channel audio) to be slightly better when letting the Denon do the work (i.e. perform bass management tasks and D/A conversion) and passing everything through the 990 untouched. I also have a digital coax output connected from the Denon to the 990 (switching the 990 from large to small to activate bass management) so I can compare the two. The differences are small....but If I'm going to spend the money...I want it to sound as good as possible.

You'll definately want to experiment with letting the 990 handle all the bass management tasks vs. the Denon because your results may be different!

Good luck with all the new gear...I know you'll love it.

Steve

Seems we have quite a bit of Rocket owners here . I will be matching my 990 with 850/200/300's Dual UFW-12's and Dual SVS PB12+2's .

And I like the DVI switching for my new projector . This will come in handy for sure .

Just to add my 2 cents on BM I also let the player do the Bass Management for analog 5.1 (SACD & DVD-A), everything else I let the 990 handle it.

I'm pretty impressed with the DACs in the 990 with the Stereo upsampling on it gives my Perpetual Tech P-3A external DAC a run for the money.

Thanks guys for the helpful suggestions particulary in regards to signal processing and the DVD player! Please keep all the suggestions and helpful tips coming.

I am also thinking about hooking up the subs with a balanced connection between the 990 and the SMS1 and then using PCA sub cables from the SMS1 to the two subs. I think this would be cleaner then just a straight PCA connection between the 990 and SMS1.

Obie there are a lot of reasons to be honest that I didn't buy the big dogs, but two of them are that the feature sets are so close it isn't funny except for an extra sub output on the DMP-1. I want to thank Gonk for his excellent spread sheet it was very useful. Second no one that I know that has ever bought a Sunfire processor has ever kept it more then 6 months before either returning it or had major problems. Neither have I ever liked the sound from a Sunfire processor, so anything built around a Sunfire core is a big turn off for me.

Besides Outlaw has a longer history of making electonics then AV123 and that also counts for a lot, particulary when for what they are charging for the 990 I can upgrade processors on a regular basis if needed. But with DVI and room equalization coming soon through a download it was a no brainer in my mind as to which processor to get.

Don't get me wrong I love AV123's speakers and I spent an entire year auditioning speakers up to 20k before I bought the Rockets but they are the new guy on the block with electronics, and they started with a core that I happen to have no faith in.

I will be buying speakers from AV123 for a long time and I will be upgrading one pair of my RS750'S to 850's, and before anyone asks why not 1000's I have never been a fan of any kind of powered speaker and the 850's I think will be perfect since they have the everything the 1000's have except for the powered woofer. If the 1000's were not so heavy and the fact that I never liked any powered speaker I might give them a try but with everything I got coming I plan on having a hernia soon and needing that drink Drunkenjack!

Merlin

I am as well....the differences between the 990 and the Denon 5900 (with it's top line Burr-Brown DACs)are minimal. I actually prefer the 990 handling the duties for movies. The beautiful thing about the 990 is it is a great option for the two-channel purist as the bypass and 7.1 inputs are so clean and transparent. A respected reviewer ( in Ultimate AV I believe) claimed no audible sonic signature for the 990's 7.1 input, saying it was largely transparent (and comparing it to the Lexicon MC-12!) My extending listening sessions tend to agree with that. The 990 is a great piece of equipment for sure!

Wow, that should be a killer system. Only question I have is why the 999ES is going up stairs. Is the picture from the Denon better? I've seen allot of DVDP's, but the 999ES has one of the best pictures I've seen. Not to mention superb SACD performance.

BTW, I just put a Sherwood P-965 on order today. The Outlaw was my pick in just about every way, but in the end I wanted the SNAP EQ. Hope it works for me.

Congrats on a great system. I've owned my 950 and 755 for a couple of years now, Outlaw makes good stuff.

Merlin , I chose the 850's over the 1000's for the same reason . I did'nt need the powered woofer .

With (2) UFW-12's and (2) SVSPB12+2's I had enough low end stuff in the room .

Your system will bring the house down

Cheers !

P.S we need more drinking smilys if I'm going to be hanging out here

Jack the Denon 3910 according to all the reviews particulary in Secrets does have a better picture and better audio. I agree the 999ES has a great picture but the 3910 is basicly an upgraded Denon 5900 and there new top dog is the 5910. But for the money it is questionable how much improvement you would get with the 5910 over the 3910. The other reason for the 3910 is a DVI connection which the 999ES only has a component connection.

My current plan is to put the 3910 and the Comcast HD box on DVI connections through the 990 to my Sony XBR60950 with DVI. The connections alone should improve picture quality, but with the 3910 better compents it will also add to my visual enjoyment I'm sure.

Also I was told by Steve in pre sales that the 990 will have room equalization in the very near future as a software download which is probably similar to SNAP I'm willing to bet. I'm just guessing about the SNAP but based on Outlaw's buisness model it would make sense with a few design changes.

Merlin

Sorry folks I need to make a correction I was just talking with Steve again and I mis-understood about the room equalization. They are looking into it but they have no definite time table for room equalization at this point in time. Sorry if I created any confusion.

Merlin

Merlin your thought process pretty much mirrors my own regarding the Emo gear. It will be interesting to see what DOJ thinks of the 990 since he had the big dog Pre/Pro.

Regarding the 1K vs 850. I had pre-ordered the 1Ks before I knew about the 850s. Had I known before hand I may have got the 850s and two stereo UFW-10s. I would have still kept the SVS for LFE.

I understand the desire to get a sub with lower extension then the current sealed subs offered by AV123. Dual LMF1s and the SMS EQ should be very nice. It does look like AV123 is addressing this "hole" with the X subs.

Regarding room EQ I'm not sure at the price level we are talking about if this is worth it at this time, the technology just seems a little to immature. I would rather see some low frequency PEQ built in for the subs. Maybe not to the degree of the SMS but more along the lines of R-DES or the BFD. On the other hand if they can get something similar to the SMS to run on the 990 I'll take it.

Obie I agee with you about the room equalization probably being a bit immature still. The only processor that I'm aware of that it exists on today is the Lexicon mc-12 as a 3k option if memory serves me correct. Although I'm told that Lexicon could sell the MC-12 for about 4k and still make a good profit but I never said that. Neither am I a big fan of Lexicon and logic 7. Logic 7 to me is like a cathedral DSP mode which is too artificial, but I know it has fans. I work for a company that makes a lot of the parts that goes into the Lexicon so I probably shouldn't say that but it is my opinion.

With the Lexicon, Denon, and Pioneer receivers I have been told by engineers that play with them for a living that most of equalization is in the bass area anyway. So with the SMS1 running 2 LMF1's I feel that I'm probably getting about 80-90% of the room equalization anyway. So when Outlaw gets around to putting it into a processor it will be fine by me.

I also will be interested in DOJ opinion of the 990 vs the EMO gear.

Merlin

The wife just called the 990 and the SMS1 have arrived. But I just checked the tracking numbers for the LMF1's and 7500 and they won't be here until the 28th. So I presume that my 30 day demo doesn't start with the 990 and SMS1 doesn't start until the 28th right since I need the amp and subs to make this work right?

Merlin

.

Easy now! Me's thinks the 3910 is CLOSE to the 5900 but not in all counts an "upgrade". It's generally accepted that the 3910 might be slightly better on video (it only beat the 5900 by one point in the Secrets tests, 92 vs. 93) but gives up a bit on the audio side.

From Secrets 3910 Benchmark:

"Another change we noticed was the analog frequency response. While it was quite good, it wasn’t quite as flat as the DVD-5900, which has a slightly better analog stage and filtering,"

Plus, the 5900's extra seven pounds means it could kick a#$ if it had to!!

Just kidding really ...just trying to justify the extra $500 I spend just 3 months before the 3910 was announced. Would love to have that HDMI that's not available on the 5900.

Enjoy,

Steve

Steve I feel for you! It is always a bear when a vendor comes out with a better product for less!

Enjoy the 5900 it is one nice player! Although I hear that the 5910 is better if you buy now you shouldn't read about the 4910 for at least 6 months!

Merlin

Well I have the 990 the SMS1, the Denon 3910 and the Sony ES SCD-C2000ES all came today. The new rack arrives tommorow along with some cables. But now I have to wait until the 27th for the LMF1 subs and 28th for the 7500.... What is a guy to do. DOJ ok now it is time for that drink!

Merlin

That's a serious load of stuff rolling in, Merlin! Sounds like you may be able to do some of your wiring in stages - get everything upstream of the 990 hooked up this weekend, then add the sub and amp next week.

Merlin , Sounds like fun ! All those great new toys ...........sounds like you need more than one drink

DOJ I think I may need to kill a couple bottles of Jack over the weekend and probably next week as I recover from my hernia from lifting that amp and subs. These had better be great subs and one heck of an amp!

Gonk my thoughts exactly I won't be able to do all the cabling since I plan on reusing cables but some of it will get done, as well as the rack assembly. I also need to wire up the IR repeater for the rack which should be here tommorow.

Merlin

Well the LMF-1's arrived today. One had the crossover knob damaged. I will call tommorow and have them send a replacement.

You know I had to have a listen so I took out the Earthquake Supernova and put one of the LMF-1 into my current system. All I can say is wow the bass is an improvement over the Earthquake supernova. I played the Lord of the Rings with the bridge scene to give it some good bass and even the wife was impressed. Both with the sound and the looks.

Now I just have to wait for the 7500 amp to arrive tommorow before the real setup can start. Two LMF-1's are going to be awe inspiring particulary with the Velodyne SMS-1.

Well DOJ you beat me to the setup of the 990! So far all I got is one working LMF-1, a pretty rack of new equipment, and a hernia! Boy do I need a drink!

Need to get some rest for my second hernia tommorow when I lug the 7500 up the stairs and into the rack.

Merlin