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#55032 - 07/16/05 03:34 PM Re: I received the 990 (My impressions)
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Have you given Outlaw a call to check with their tech support team? They might be able to help make sure there's nothing physically wrong with your unit (or arrange for repairs or replacement if there is something wrong).
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#55033 - 07/16/05 04:11 PM Re: I received the 990 (My impressions)
PodBoy Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 281
"...came up with pretty much the same calibration values."

HUH?

The actual amount of any offset required when calibrating (or, more correctly, adjusting the unit to the variables of the processor, amp, speakers and room) a processor or receiver may or may not be the same. That they are or aren't is of no value since it is not something you compare. The goal, as I presume you know, is to set the output levels so that all channels are equal. How you get there is of little consequence and ascribes no goodness to one unit or another.

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#55034 - 07/16/05 04:24 PM Re: I received the 990 (My impressions)
tonygeno Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 09/12/02
Posts: 77
Loc: MA
Quote:
Originally posted by Pythagore:
Both the HK525 and the Stage one at -30dB I can feel my sofa shaking [Big Grin] , but the 990 needed to be set to +4dB for the same output.
The Aragon Stage One is THX certified. If it is properly calibrated, -30db will give you maximum output of 75db (30db below reference, which is 105db). If you're couch was shading at -30db on the Aragon there is clearly a calibration issue. Do you even know what reference is?

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#55035 - 07/16/05 04:28 PM Re: I received the 990 (My impressions)
Pythagore Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 19
Loc: Kanata, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by PodBoy:
"...came up with pretty much the same calibration values."

HUH?

The actual amount of any offset required when calibrating (or, more correctly, adjusting the unit to the variables of the processor, amp, speakers and room) a processor or receiver may or may not be the same. That they are or aren't is of no value since it is not something you compare. The goal, as I presume you know, is to set the output levels so that all channels are equal. How you get there is of little consequence and ascribes no goodness to one unit or another.
Agree with you, forget about the THX certification crap. If the volume range of all 3 units is exactly the same (-76dB - +8dB), and since a decibel is a decibel then 990 set at -20 dB should be equal to the Stage one set to -20dB unless the Outlaw output level is pre-set to -10 dB lower in respect to the actual volume level (probably in an effort to compensate for noise, or to reduce the high frequency noise I keep hearing from my tweeters as soon as I turn the unit on) so that when the volume is set to -20dB but actually outputs -30dB.

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#55036 - 07/16/05 04:39 PM Re: I received the 990 (My impressions)
Pythagore Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 19
Loc: Kanata, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by tonygeno:
Quote:
Originally posted by Pythagore:
[b] Both the HK525 and the Stage one at -30dB I can feel my sofa shaking [Big Grin] , but the 990 needed to be set to +4dB for the same output.
. Do you even know what reference is? [/b]
With a master degree in Electrical engineering in one of the most respected university in North America + 5 years of industrial experience, I should. Do you?

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#55037 - 07/16/05 04:47 PM Re: I received the 990 (My impressions)
tonygeno Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 09/12/02
Posts: 77
Loc: MA
Well then how can you expect a THX certified pre-pro (which by definition outputs reference at 0db) to shake your couch at -30db? Am I missing something?

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#55038 - 07/16/05 04:59 PM Re: I received the 990 (My impressions)
Pythagore Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 19
Loc: Kanata, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by tonygeno:
Well then how can you expect a THX certified pre-pro (which by definition outputs reference at 0db) to shake your couch at -30db? Am I missing something?
Just forget about the THX certification crap. I did not buy the Stage One for its THX certification. What I'm saying dB is dB, unless Outlaw has pre-set their 990 to output at a few dBs lower in respect to the volume level indicator.

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#55039 - 07/16/05 05:16 PM Re: I received the 990 (My impressions)
tonygeno Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 09/12/02
Posts: 77
Loc: MA
Quote:
Originally posted by Pythagore:
Quote:
Originally posted by tonygeno:
[b] Well then how can you expect a THX certified pre-pro (which by definition outputs reference at 0db) to shake your couch at -30db? Am I missing something?
Just forget about the THX certification crap. I did not buy the Stage One for its THX certification. What I'm saying dB is dB, unless Outlaw has pre-set their 990 to output at a few dBs lower in respect to the volume level indicator. [/b]
THX certification has nothing to do with it. Reference calibration does. Whether you get there at 0db, -20db, or -50db is immaterial. What is important is that when you're auditing each processor that they are outputting the same SPL: and it doesn't matter where you need to set the volume control to get there. For the 990, reference is 0db (which will give you 105db at the listening position all channels driven with 115db peaks from the LFE). If you want to go beyond reference, you can get 8db above with the 990. My Lexicon MC12 in comparison went from -80 to +12 and again I hit reference at 0db. Since it didn't "shake my couch" at -30, I assume you'd say it too sounded like a low end receiver?

My Panasonic SA-XR50 (which is a low end receiver) hits reference at -17db. Does that mean it sounds like a high-end receiver?

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#55040 - 07/16/05 05:33 PM Re: I received the 990 (My impressions)
Pythagore Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 19
Loc: Kanata, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by tonygeno:
Quote:
Originally posted by Pythagore:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by tonygeno:
[b] Well then how can you expect a THX certified pre-pro (which by definition outputs reference at 0db) to shake your couch at -30db? Am I missing something?
Just forget about the THX certification crap. I did not buy the Stage One for its THX certification. What I'm saying dB is dB, unless Outlaw has pre-set their 990 to output at a few dBs lower in respect to the volume level indicator. [/b]
THX certification has nothing to do with it. Reference calibration does. Whether you get there at 0db, -20db, or -50db is immaterial. What is important is that when you're auditing each processor that they are outputting the same SPL: and it doesn't matter where you need to set the volume control to get there. For the 990, reference is 0db (which will give you 105db at the listening position all channels driven with 115db peaks from the LFE). If you want to go beyond reference, you can get 8db above with the 990. My Lexicon MC12 in comparison went from -80 to +12 and again I hit reference at 0db. Since it didn't "shake my couch" at -30, I assume you'd say it too sounded like a low end receiver? [/b]
No, I won't. I'm well aware of the capability of the Lexicon MC-12. Actually, the MC-12 is one of the receiver I auditioned after my disappointment with the 990. But, did not believe it worth the $15k Canadian price tag.

One thing you forgot to take into account is the efficiency of the speaker the 990 is connected to.

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#55041 - 07/16/05 07:35 PM Re: I received the 990 (My impressions)
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Not to take any wind out of the "magnitude of personal credentials" exchanges, I'll re-iterate my previous question - has Outlaw support been invited to lend a hand with this problem?
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gonk
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