Well I was at the show. To make a long story short, the 990 is an $1100 processor, nothing more nothing less. It's not the miracle processor I hoped it would be. It sounded good mind you. Perhpas it was teh AT 8200 speaker system.. but the dialogue was flat, and upper frequencies were dull, however, I will say the bass response was very good (LMF1 subs sounded fantastic). The processing is all there, panning from speaker to speaker etc it's all there. The 990 just doesn't have the high end smooth and clairty sound of say an anthem D1, or Meridian/Lex products. I know I know, these products are no where near it's price range. I guess as someone noted you get what you pay for. I have to demo again with different speakers I'm familiar with. But, it was obvious, it doesn't have the high end sound I really want. As they say in the amplifier world, after the power transistors, the amp is voiced that is where you seperate cheaper and high end products. I guess I may just have to go on the used marked for AVM 20/30 or B&K 50 even. Darn.. I was really hoping this would be the $3000 processor for $1000.. folks trust me it isn't. The cabinet is huge...

I've noticed several posts from you on different forums today with this same report. I am sorry to hear that you were disappointed, but I think you raise a couple of potentially valuable points that we should all stop and recognize. For one thing, the adage "you get what you pay for" holds true to a great degree in all aspects of life. Outlaw offers great equipment for the price - based on other products they've produced, I would expect the 990 to at least represent a very pleasing combination of sound and features for the price. Anyone expecting any $1100 SSP to walk, talk, and somehow "put to shame" products costing several times more are running the risk of serious disappointment. Also, personal tastes differ, sometimes greatly. Some people are very fond of the "Canadian" sound of speakers like Paradigm or Axiom (to name a couple), while others prefer British speakers like B&W or KEF, and still others prefer Klipsch or Polk or Boston Acoustics. The cool part is that nobody's necessarily wrong. If, for example, the Atlantic Tech speakers weren't to someone's liking, the Paradigm setup could have been a preferred demo system last weekend.

We're still dealing with too small a sampling of reports to know just what the 990's capable of, in my opinion. I've seen reports from a number of sources who felt that the 990/770/LFM-1/Atlantic Tech system was the home theater highlight of last weekend's show, which certainly very bodes well for the 990 (especially considering some of the other hardware on display). There are also countless reviews and user comments about the P-965 (the foundation for the 990) that are highly complimentary. It may very well be that the 990 isn't the sonic equal of an Anthem D1 (which is at least reassuring for the much more expensive D1), but the real test will be to put the 990 into people's home systems and see how they feel about it. Even then, the 990 will experience the same thing that every other product on the market experiences. For some people, it will not be enough to take the place of a more expensive unit because the imcremental differences (and we tend to get down to small differences as the price rises) are worth the extra money to them. For others, that same incremental difference will not be enough to warrant spending twice (or more) the money. Three years ago, I felt that many vocal opponents of the 950 were just plain mad that they couldn't get "something for nothing" - that $900 at Outlaw wouldn't buy a $2500 or $4000 product available elsewhere. The fact that it would buy something that offered a great deal of enjoyment for the price got lost along the way, which I think was a shame.

That was a very polite and classy response Gonk. Good post.

Right. Mendes, I would give it another chance. I wouldn't condemn Outlaw on one scene in a terrible movie not even the star's mother would see. I am going to watch a few movies tomorrow and see what happens. I won't hold punches.

Yes, the cabinet is huge. Yes, the upper frequencies could be improved but at HES, Outlaw distinguished itself from the pack even with a somewhat dissapointing speaker system and a price point that second to none The set up was driven by an Outlaw amp. A Bryston, Krell or Moon amp might have made that $1000 processor sound like $3000.

Thanks gentleman, and you guys here are truely gentleman....

Please, don't get the impression that I'm an outlaw basher. I want the product to suceed, as Outlaw is only 1 of 2 companies out there that gives us a Pre-proc at middle class prices. I'm hoping that indeed it was the AT 8200 speaker system that wasn't to my taste. I need to demo with different speakers. I wish I could have taken the Paradigm Signature S8's a few doors down and connected them to the 990..

Here is what I can say.. as stated, the processing is all there.. the first 2 demo's they gave were very very good. Also, as with the 950 I didn't notice any delay in locking in on the signal, it was quick. In terms of Dolby Digital processing, the speaker panning, echoing, and enveloping sound as stated is all there my friends. In that respect it appears to compete with the big boys, and I've listened to all of them (anthem, lex, Meridian)As has also been stated by the Sherwood folks.

But also as I said, at least wih the AT 8200 speaker system, which is the 1st time I heard them, so I have no basis of comparison ( which is a key point), the refined mid's and highs of the high end products, I did not hear at least out of the AT 8200 speaker system. Speakers, make a huge difference so I'm hoping that is it.

Case in point, I also demo'd the Totem speakers, that sound very impressive. Everyone in the room, seems to be wow'd by the totem speaker demo. While they sounded fantastic, you have to realize they had a $3K Ayre Acoustics CD player, and $3k integrated amplifier. I asked the owner, who is also demoing them, why don't you play those speakers with a $200 DVD player that most of us will use at home and $1000 amplifer? Because, it won't sound the same not even close. I remember when I purchased my B&W speakers, and setting them up at home they sounded no where near as good on my rotel equipment as they did at the dealer with his Krell amp, and Meridian CD player. I mean, night and day difference. SO I told him, "I think you demo is misleading, because you are demoing a pair of $1500 speakers that sound fantasic here, but 95% of people who buy your speakers will dissapointed at home because they won't use a $3,000 cd player as you are using here, which makes a world of difference, why don't you use a $200 DVD player like most of us?" His response was that it won't sound to much different. Yeah sure...

It sounds like you tend to prefer the sound of Paradigm's speakers, mendes9, which is something that I can relate to (I'm running Studio/60v2's, CCv2, and a mix of Studio/ADPv2 and Axiom M3ti for surrounds). I'm on the list for a 990 and will be replacing a 950, which it sounds like you've had some experience with. I'll be posting my findings once I get a 990 and spend some time with it, and perhaps those findings will be of some value to you.

Let me get this straight: you're making the above claim based on having heard the 990 and those other processors at different times, in different systems, with different speakers, playing different material, under different conditions, connected to different sources, etc? But despite all that, a short demo is all you needed to pinpoint the 990's sound as lacking in high end smoothness and clarity compared to those other processors? That's some discerning ear you have there, not to mention your auditory memory. Why would anyone get that impression?

Just because you went to AVS Forum and posted "the dialogue especially was not crisp, it even sounded harsh" and that the Outlaw demo made your "ears bleed". Or when you read at the AV123 Forum that Thomas J. Norton gave high praise to the Outlaw demo, and you replied "Tom Norton must be on crack, or well paid by outlaw. The best at the show..??? I think he wrote that up after 1 too many beers."

Gonk is correct: you've spent the last two days running around various forums posting the same report. "Outlaw basher"? I won't resort to name-calling, but you certainly are on a mission.

WOW Sanjay, amazing how you can take a few comments and complete mislead people with what I said. An example, below you quoted.

"Just because you went to AVS Forum and posted "the dialogue especially was not crisp, it even sounded harsh" and that the Outlaw demo made your "ears bleed"

Let me correct you.

It makes is sound like I said, the sound was so harsh that it made my ears bleed. Which is totally FALSE. What I said was, that the demo of the flight of the Phoenix demo was so loud that it made my ears bleed, DUE TO THE VOLUME, not because it was harsh.

"That's some discerning ear you have there, not to mention your auditory memory."

Yep, absolutely without a dought. If you want to come over and test me, PM Me.

Do you have an axe to grind with me or something? My opinion is just that an opinion, I invite anyone to form there own opinion, but don't dis-credit mine.

mendes, gonk,

Thank you both for your input on this thread. It is a real service that we can see different viewpoint/opinions about products that we may all have questions. I was wondering about the build quality of the 990. Is it equal or better than the 950? Display? Did you get a chance to see the menu?

Cedric

Cedman1,
I did not see the menu I cannot comment. Over at AVS, someone who bought one the units on sale, said he wasn't crazy about the menu. Please, read his comments. The build quality appeared to be fine. The unit is quite large, when looking inside, you see lot's of empty space and a small circuit board. The unit looks better in person than it does in the photo's, in my opinion.

I didn't lead or mislead anyone. I posted facts; people can read them and make up their own minds. I even sourced your quotes so that people can go to those forums and read your entire posts. No. I specifically separated the quote about harshness from the quote about your ears bleeding, attributing the latter to the Outlaw demo and not the harshness. So when you say that the 'Flight of the Phoenix' scene made your ears bleed, are you talking about something that wasn't part of the Outlaw demo? Neither. And considering your activity and comments at various forums during the last two days, I could ask you the same thing about Outlaw. After all, why would you say "don't get the impression that I'm an outlaw basher" unless you knew that that's how your comments are painting you.

It's also not axe-grinding to point out the context of your comments. I'm still amazed that you could walk out of that demo and attribute specific sonic qualities to the 990. You sure the lack of high end smoothness and clarity wasn't due to the Outlaw cables being used or the Outlaw amplifier? How did you decide it was the 990?

Sanja,

I hope you are a lawyer, because you distort the facts very well.

Why must you turn this nice civalized discussion into something ugly? Just like so many other threads, someone like you comes along, then the mud slinging starts, goes off topic and thread is closed.

Go listen to your lexicon and leave us alone.

mendes9 (and others here):

Let's be civil to one another; we don't want the Outlaws to run us out of town! Remember people could just as easily tell you to "go listen to your Anthem and leave us alone", but that wouldn't be nice, would it?

Listen to your Anthem? What, you say you would love to but don't actually own one since it is just too expensive for your budget? Hmmm, and the 990 sounds just as good, and to the ears of some better, but is about one third the cost? Gee, that's just TERRIBLE, isn't it? Who could possibly want to buy something that has basically the same value but costs considerably less?

Gee, isn't that the whole idea here? Great sounding stuff with just the right combination of features at a very modest cost in comparison to the high priced spreads?

Something that did impress me about the demo which I thought was very enveloping, was that Scott was using good ole HomeDepot zip cord for speaker wire. None of that super fancy stuff the other crowd was using. Mendes did you get to hear thiphiaudio's demo. They used a Kenwood receiver and a sony dvd player and reproduced some great two-channel with orb looking speakers. As I mentioned in another forum, if you bought the 950, I think selling it and purchasing the 990 is a no-brainer. It will be a great $600 upgrade if you can afford it, and make use of the features. I was allowed to play my own Diana Krall DVD when I went back on Sunday. In my opinion I related to the Outlaw sounding smooth. As far as one of the best demo's for HT, there was only one that I thought was better. The 75,000 buck cinepro which I think if Outlaw had used a third sub it would have been a fairer fight. But two 15inch super subs against two for $1000 bucks, it was not fair fight. I enjoyed the Anthem D1 demo, as it introduced me to Patricia Barber. One I got that SACD home and played it, my friend commented how my speakers never sounded better. Source material makes a demo. Once you have the 990 in your own home, with your own speakers, then peoples opinions canreally have some weight behind them.

Well put! Your own cables, amp, source player and speakers. Then and only then can anyone give a meaningful review but it will still be biased towards that particular equipment/environment and the individual's personal taste.

That's why I rarely go into a B&M store to "audition" equipment. A waste of time IMHO. The true test is listening at home.

The thread is still civilized and hasn't gotten ugly. There's no mudslinging (certainly not on my part), but I do feel it is important to put your comments in context. Especially since you've been quite busy during the last couple of days posting those comments at several forums (note that I'm not the only one to point this out).

This thread hasn't gone off-topic. My questions specifically address claims you made in your first post. If you find them uncomfortable, then that's too bad. But they are valid questions.

You still haven't answered how you could come out of that short demo and attribute specific sonic qualities to the pre-pro. Prospective 990 buyers would find that information useful.

Earlier you claimed "The 990 just doesn't have the high end smooth and clairty sound of say an anthem D1, or Meridian/Lex products." You also said "I was really hoping this would be the $3000 processor for $1000.. folks trust me it isn't." Folks could trust you more if you explained the context of your 990 vs Anthem/Meridian/Lex comparison. That would be very helpful for people considering the 990. Who are you talking on behalf of when you say "us"? I've been posting here for over 3 years. You just showed up last month.

Point proven... your trashing the thread.

"You still haven't answered how you could come out of that short demo and attribute specific sonic qualities to the pre-pro. Prospective 990 buyers would find that information useful."

I did give you the answer, you just don't want to accept it. I gave my impression of the demo at the HE 2005, PERIOD. Take it or leave it. Clearly this is my impression based on 2 times I demod the 990, that's it period. Not based on 100 hours of listening and A/B-ing with different equipment.

You want to trash and critique my opinion of the demo, I have no issue with that. However, do it like a gentleman as Gonk did, and don't take tid bits of my posts and twist the meaning of what I posted. That is where my beef is with you.

Yes, so I signed up to post a month ago, guess that means I've only been reading the posts around here for a month... and I've only known about oulaw products for a month now also. Humm.. you have come to another wrong conclusion.

I'm sorry "Iggy The Dog", this was civil until Sanjay posted.

Also, 2 of the 3 firstowners, are giving the 990 good reviews.

STOP THE MADNESS!

You're both right and you are both a bit over the line. Let's leave everyone to their own opinion and move on. Sanjay was a bit defensive, mendes was a bit edgy ("go listen to your Lexicon"). Please remember that when you write stuff here it is hard to filter through sometimes, as written communications lack the inflection and speech patterns of talking to someone in person or on the phone.

Let's get back to the topic at hand: How does the 990 sound? From what everyone agrees, so far, so (quite) good! In reality, while the HE Show demo proves the basic points, the real test will come when people are able to listen in comfortable surroundings, with speakers and amplifiers that they already "know" and with program material that they have a frame of reference for.

The bottom line seems to be that the HE Show demonstrated (literally!) that the 990 passes the first round of "real world" tests, let's be cool until some of us get our hands on them for ourselves.

Thanks Iggy, I think that was a fair summary.

Here is a real life review, from one of the first owners. Looking good

"OK, it is only 5.1 because my room isn't big enough to support more right now. But I am listening to the 990 with an Outlaw 770 Amp. I have an Arcam cd73T as a source and Paradigm Studio 60s in the front 20s in the back and a Studio Center in front, all version 2. Hsu Vtf-2 as the sub. So far I am impressed. As I posted in the outlaw forum it all works amazingly well so far. The only majot complaint I have is the remote. I got a beta copy of the manual today (No I cannot give it to you or post it or I will violate an agreement with Outlaw). So my first impressions are all positive. The only semi negatives are that the remote is pretty terrible (can't wait for them to program a Harmony code for it) and I think the Arcam sounds better using its Dac than the one in the preamp. I can't say I didn't expect that. Arcam is, in my opinion, the CD player maker for the dollar really. Also, I bought the Arcam for a reason... If you want a preamp that is going to do better than an Arcam, the Anthem D-1 may be for you, at $4k more...

The autosetup works flawlessly, though I did mount my mic to a tripod to do it. It worked perfect. I tweaked the sub a bit, but that is because I like things a little more bass heavy than others.

I plan on getting a 20' usb cable to try that tomorrow. FYI, only stereo mode over USB. Not a complete digital stream, so if you have a digital out on your sound card, plan on using that.

I listened to an HDCD, if any of you hoped that it would do HDCD, it doesn't, but that isn't surprising really. No one really uses it anymore.

I haven't watched a movie yet. That's tomorrow night, if the girl I am dating will let me stay in again. Heh. I have listened to Dave Matthews Live in Central Park on DVD though. I will say that I actually enjoyed the Neo DTS mix from the Preamp (using linear PCM) more than I liked the 5.1 mix that was on the DVD. The sound quality was the same, just liked the Preamps mix better.

Alas, I have to go back to billing hours. I can't wait until I get a day or six to sit and play with this. Oh, as a plus, the pre amp is dead quite. I can't even tell it and the amp are on if the source is selected but nothing is playing. What a stepup from my NAD T763.... If you want to ask questions about it, feel free to post here or PM me. I will get back to you as soon as I can"

mendes:

If I may make one more suggestion, rather than deal with hearsay, how about letting the people who own the units post their own reviews as they see fit? While we have no reason to doubt that what you posted IS from one of the first three, without attribution, we have no way of knowing that for CERTAIN.

Persuming that you are on the list for a 990, why don't you wait and post YOUR OWN review when you can audition a 990 in conditions you are familiar with, rather than in the fair, but to some extent exaggerated and artificial circumstances of a demo in a hotel room with speakers you haven't heard on their own, and an amp you are also not familiar with. Remember, while this is all personal opinion, you need to carefully set out your frame of reference.

Why don't we do something REALLY SILLY and let the reviewers do their own reviews. You've posted your comments, and they express your opinions from the HE SHow. Now, let's wait for more from the owners. Hopefully, that will happen in the next two weeks or so!

Boy, I get caught in a few meetings and office disasters and I miss a whole lot...

First, it is pretty interesting that Outlaw used nothing more exotic than their own interconnects and everyday generic speaker wire for the demo system - it is a close parallel to the way most units will be wired up in people's homes, and a reminder of the company's preference for "no nonsense" design. Also, I think both JeffreyMercado and barnabas have an excellent point about the benefit of demoing equipment in the system that you are most familiar with - your own. That's one of the strengths of Internet direct companies like Outlaw (or Axiom, or SVS, or ...) that offer a 30-day return policy, so that you can do just that. Very few traditional brick-and-mortar retailers are as accommodating, even for repeat customers who have spent thousands of dollars with them in the past.

Lastly, I think the saloon's resident canine has made some excellent points. This forum has a long-standing history of folks being pretty civil to each other (with a few rare exceptions that prove the rule, so to speak), although we are never afraid to eagerly discuss issues on which we may not all share the same viewpoint. I think Iggy's final comment is some of the best advice to date in this thread: "let the reviewers do their own reviews" once these reserved units reach people's eager hands. While I would love to proclaim today that the fact that so many people came away from last weekend really impressed with the 990 means that it must be wonderful, I think the real test will come when we start getting feedback from people who have used them in their homes for a good while.

Does the show (HEC) have a website? I'd love to see some pictures of outlaw's venue that was there.

I did post that on the AVS Forum for what it is worth. Are any of you in New York?

Shawn

There is a site for the HE Show , but if you are looking for pictures you may want to look at a couple other sources. Our own psklenar posted a great collection of pictures , as did ScottH .