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#49571 - 06/18/01 04:56 PM Re: The Great DSP Debate
bluefire Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 5
Loc: East Troy, WI USA
I vote a loud "Nay." I have never made any real use of the DSP modes available to me with my current JVC (Just Very Crappy) receiver both because of how horrid they sound as well as how difficult it is to select one mode further down the list than another.

I always seem to overshoot the one mode I may (for some reason) be looking for and have to scroll through the whole list again. Since that initial experience, I have never gone back to the DSP modes.

I figure, keep the unit simple to use and build it to do what it does better than anyone else.

Just my $0.02

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#49572 - 06/18/01 04:58 PM Re: The Great DSP Debate
Adam Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 1
Loc: NJ
Yes, I think it would be a good idea to have at least two customizable DSP modes. One for multichannel stereo for parties. And an other to enhance the ambience of music performances.

Adam

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#49573 - 06/18/01 04:58 PM Re: The Great DSP Debate
mbrewthx Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 1
Loc: Newberg OR USA
Thumbs down!! No!
I never use the extra DSP modes.
Why process the material to make sound a certain way?
Most of the time Music or movie soudtracks are fine just they way they were intended to be heard..

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#49574 - 06/18/01 05:14 PM Re: The Great DSP Debate
glenda Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 1
no never liked them as they usually sound hookey

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#49575 - 06/18/01 05:16 PM Re: The Great DSP Debate
Grady H Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 1
Loc: Wilmore, KY 40390
DSP: I guess it doesn't matter about them to me, becuase I never use them, but if you think it will sell more products for you then go ahead and make some more money!

It is great that the DPLII is incorporated
and
All I can think about adding is DTS-ES and you would be set!

Good luck and God bless!




------------------
In Him,
GH
_________________________
In Him,
GH

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#49576 - 06/18/01 05:17 PM Re: The Great DSP Debate
Jay21 Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 1
Loc: Marlborough, MA, USA
DSP modes make music sound hollow. I say NO to DSP modes.

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#49577 - 06/18/01 05:26 PM Re: The Great DSP Debate
axnff Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 1
Loc: Omaha, NE USA
Unless you know of a select few, USEFUL, DSP modes, I say leave them out! I've never heard one I liked.

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#49578 - 06/18/01 05:36 PM Re: The Great DSP Debate
Avi Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 62
Loc: Northern New Jersey, USA
---Summary---
You should definitely include DSP modes. You'd be wise to limit them to modes that sound good and are user adjustable.

---Marketing---
Outlaw is not aimed exclusively at 2 channel fanatics who despise DSP modes on principal (though there seem to be a few on this forum).

All magazine reviewers mention whether a piece has DSP modes; some are dismissive, but why risk missing a check list item of a reviewer or potential customer? Your (higher priced) competition from Lexicon is known for DSP modes - if the comparison won't make you look bad, you MUST include DSP modes.

---I Like DSP. No, Really!---
Finally, I may be the first to publicly admit this, but I USE DSP MODES. I have a Yamaha DSP-A1, and it has a zillion modes, all extremely adjustable, some which make music sound like mud, but some which make the music absolutely come alive. The best way to demonstrate this is to find the right mode for the music, then turn jump to plain stereo in mid-track. Where did the depth and vibrancy go? The room suddenly got smaller! (Note: the Yamaha uses an additional 2 front speakers to recreate ceiling reflections). I listen to jazz, fusion, or Dave Matthews Band in a modified Roxy DSP mode. Eagles and James Taylor DVDs get the Concert Video mode (on top of DTS or Dolby Digital). Orchestral music gets straight stereo or a nearly reverb-free adjusted version of U.S. Hall 4. Most movies get 70MM Adventure 2 (on top of Dolby Digital or DTS) which really makes my smallish room sound like a bigger venue. Movies with dialog in the surrounds get straight Dolby Digital or DTS.

---Conclusion---
So, if you can provide good DSP modes, by all means do so. I'll use them. However, if the best you can do are non-adjustable "hall" and "stadium" modes equivalent to those on a $500 Sony receiver, then don't bother - just include DPII's music mode and DTS Neo:6 music mode and call it a day. In any case, make sure you include discrete codes for selecting specific modes. Offer an option to hide them in the menu for those who don't want to see them.

***And make sure there is a Re-Eq mode for movies.***

-avi

P.S. A "bathroom" mode sounds silly, but might work well for video games - so if you're going to include this type of mode, name it appropriately.
_________________________
Regular home theater / consumer electronics column posted at http://www.greengart.com .

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#49579 - 06/18/01 06:22 PM Re: The Great DSP Debate
wildfire Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 1
Loc: Seattle, WA
Thumbs up for sure. While I agree that 90% of DSP modes range from useless gimmicks to actual degraders of sound, once in a while you come across a truly useful, expanding processing set. Especially when watching material which is either mono or poor stereo, or just for kicks while having a party to widen the soundstage. If there's no cost, why not. Include even programmable parameters like some of the Yamaha's I've owned, so people can trade DSP profiles back and forth and customize the processing to their every whim.

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#49580 - 06/18/01 06:23 PM Re: The Great DSP Debate
David Olstein Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 62
Loc: New York, NY USA
Aside from Dolby Digital, Dolby Surround EX (or a reasonable facsimile thereof), DTS, DTS ES, DTS 6.1 Discrete, DTS Neo 6.1 and Dolby Pro Logic, the only processing modes I'd like to see are (1) a mode that will create 7.1 channels from a 5.1 or 6.1 source, (2) a mode that will create 3 front channels from a stereo source, and (3) a model that will downcovert 5.1 to 4.0 (many of Sony's upcoming multichannel SACDs are actually sourced from 4 track quadraphonic masters). Perhaps (2) will be done automatically by setting the center channel to "off" and setting the front and rear speakers to "large".

Basically, I prefer to listen to music the way it was intended to be heard. So much of the DSP modes are of absolutely no interest to me.

One question though -- will the 950 include Dolby Pro Logic I and II, or just Pro Logic II? The reason I ask is that virtually all of the surround-encoded Dolby stereo soundtracks were prepared with the original Pro Logic sound field in mind (front-center-left, mono surround). Although from what I've read, Pro Logic II can produce a very convicing 5.1 sound mix, I would at least like to have the choice of hearing some of these older soundtracks the way there were intended to be heard. In the end, I suspect I'll probably prefer the sound with Pro Logic II, but I'd still like to have the option of using Pro Logic I.

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