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#48612 - 05/07/02 03:13 PM My ICBM is kicking my #*&)@#
Martice Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 9
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
I posted before I received my ICBM and it seems I'm having problems setting it up. FIrst off my pre/pro only allows a sub when the fronts are set to small. I spoke to a few here and the input was helpful. What I don't understand is how to calibrate my system using this piece.

Here's what I mean. The manual says on page 15 Setting the subwoofer Level

"When you calibrate your system using the internal test tones in your receiver or preamp/processor, set the ICBM's subwoofer level control to 0dB (which I would assume is all the way to the left) and use the level control of the receiver or pre/pro or the subwoofer level control."

One problem, when I turn the ICBM level control down to 0db I can't here any test tones from my pre/pro. Why is that?

I can't calibrate the sub output because I set the front speakers to Large so that the signal will not be crossed over twice and only once by the ICBM which then means that my processor sends no signal to calibrate for the sub. If I set the fronts to small I can then calibrate the sub but it seems worthless because they later tell me to use the Large setting and subwoofer no. Why am I calibrating the sub if I'm going to turn it off anyway.

The manual says on page 8.

Reset the speaker configuration of your processor or receiver.

A few inexpensive receivers offer only two bass managagement modes: "all speakers small/subwoofer on" and "Large left/right, small center, surrounds/no subwoofer". If you have one of these, use the latter setting - the ICBM will let you use a subwoofer and Large front spekers together, an opion your receiver doesn't offer."

Another question is this. What volume setting should the sub be leveled? Should I keep it where I had it originally which was at the halfway point and calibrate as normal before I start using the ICBM? Should I have it maxed out and use the ICBM for levels?

Like I said earlier 'The ICBM and my Pre/Pro are kicking my $#%*(*#&

Any help is greatly appreciated.





[This message has been edited by Martice (edited May 07, 2002).]
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#48613 - 05/07/02 03:23 PM Re: My ICBM is kicking my #*&)@#
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Your pre/pro should still let the subwoofer get some signal when the mains are set to large -- the sub still has to handle the "LFE" data on DVD's. As such, it should still send the sub a test tone. Is the subwoofer turned off on your pre/pro? (Oh, and what pre/pro are you using? -- somebody around here may know some tricks associated with it.) I would think you would need to leave your sub turned "on" at the pre/pro to properly route the LFE signal (the blurb on page 8 would probably apply to only rare cases, like older Pro-Logic receivers), but I'm not real positive since I haven't messed with an ICBM.

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#48614 - 05/07/02 05:19 PM Re: My ICBM is kicking my #*&)@#
Matthew Hill Offline
Desperado

Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 1434
Loc: Mount Laurel, NJ
I could be wrong, but don't most receivers typically route LFE to the fronts if they're set to large and the sub is turned off?
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#48615 - 05/07/02 05:28 PM Re: My ICBM is kicking my #*&)@#
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
True, but you should be able to have the mains set to large and the sub left on and get the LFE passed directly to the sub. Right? Or am I missing something? (Entirely possible, since the plumbing designer in the next cubicle is playing with some computerized tour of a pipe factory and all I can hear is some voice talking about scrap yards and ASTM standards and furnaces... ).

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[This message has been edited by gonk (edited May 07, 2002).]
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#48616 - 05/07/02 06:21 PM Re: My ICBM is kicking my #*&)@#
Matthew Hill Offline
Desperado

Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 1434
Loc: Mount Laurel, NJ
That's true, Gonk, but his first sentence specified that his pre/pro only allows a sub when the fronts are set to small. This means it's probably routing LFE there when they're set to large.

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matt@idsi.net
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#48617 - 05/07/02 06:31 PM Re: My ICBM is kicking my #*&)@#
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Ah, gotcha. So the sub is automatically disabled when the fronts are set to "large" -- I must have missed that. That's sort of a pain.

So the pre/pro will be re-directing the LFE channel to the mains. If the surrounds and center can be set to large (which should be possible, unless I've missed something else), that'd probably be best -- it would let the ICBM handle bass management for those channels. Otherwise the pre/pro will also get involved in bass management on those channels, which we're trying to avoid.

My best guess? The ICBM should be able to re-produce the LFE channel from the mains' signals, but for calibration you'd have to set the mains to small so you could get the test tone from the pre/pro. After calibration I'd switch the mains back to large. While it's true that you'll be blending the LFE channel into the mains at the pre/pro and then re-extracting it for the sub at the ICBM, but it would seem better than the alternative. I can see why this would be an "#*&)@#-kicker".

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#48618 - 05/07/02 10:27 PM Re: My ICBM is kicking my #*&)@#
billdean Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 20
Loc: Manakin-Sabot, VA USA
I don't think that the large/no sub and small/sub is an issue with the ICBM.

Set all your speakers to large. As I understand it, there will be no output from your receiver to the ICBM sub input via the RCA connection for the LFE/sub channel. However, you will have a connection from the ICBM LFE/sub RCA output to your sub. The ICBM will extract ALL bass, including the bass sent to the mains, center, surrounds, and LFE info (which has been re-routed to the mains), and send it to the sub, in accordance with your ICBM crossover choices.

I haven't thought this all the way thru, but I suspect that the drawback to this arrangement would be that the LFE mix control on the front of the ICBM would not work, since you have no signal coming directly from the receiver's sub output to the ICBM.

I don't think that you would find this to be either a problem or inconvenience.

Good luck!

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#48619 - 05/07/02 11:44 PM Re: My ICBM is kicking my #*&)@#
Scott Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 673
In many receivers, the sub will be off in stereo mode if the main speakers are set to large. However, this does not mean that the LFE is automatically redirected to the main channels on 5.1 soundtracks. As long as the sub is turned "on" in the receiver's speaker configuration menu, the front speaker setting should not effect the dedicated LFE channel.

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#48620 - 05/08/02 06:30 AM Re: My ICBM is kicking my #*&)@#
Martice Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 9
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Wonderful feedback and thank you all for all of your information.

Well after a few hours of playing around with the ICBM and my limited HK Sig 2.0 pre/pro, I seem to have figured out what I had to do. Here it goes.

I set all of my speaker settings in the processor. I then set my sub levels after putting the fronts to 'Small'. Once I got the levels right for the sub I then put the fronts back to the 'Large' setting. The Outlaw manual says that if I have this type of bass management then I should set my sub to the off position so I did that.

I put in a CD that I'm very familiar with and tweaked the bass information using the subwoofer level knob on the ICBM.

**(One quick question. Where do you have the volume setting on the sub amp? Do you have it maxed or do you have the level where you always had it. In my case I have it set at the 12:00 setting)

I would imagine that in the case of the LFE setting, I could adjust the knob on a movie by movie basis but I'm committed to the
level I set using the subwoofer level switch on the ICBM. Once I decided on that (tweaked) level, It's just a matter of playing with the LFE knob during movies which amazingly sounds good as is.

I quit while I was on a roll but I did notice something while fishing around before I quit. I was now able to hear bass information even with the sub settings set to 'Large' on my processor. I don't know if a signal was being sent or not but I will listen today to see if there is any difference when I have the sub set to 'ON' when the speakers set to 'Large'and 'OFF'.

I will report back with my findings later this afternoon.

Thanks again.
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#48621 - 05/08/02 06:46 AM Re: My ICBM is kicking my #*&)@#
Martice Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 9
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
DOH!!

I forgot that during DD/DTS movies I can have the fronts set to 'Large' and I have the sub on!! Only in stereo mode will I not be able to do this so it makes sense that it worked out well at the end of the day for me.

So the only time that LFE knob should come into play is when I'm watching movies because stereo sources don't have an LFE track right? This may also explain why the system still played when I set the sub to on. It was during a movie!! Earlier, I was tweaking with a CD which is in stereo mode and doesn't allow a sub with the settings set to Large.

So it seems that I wasn't mindful of the source that I was using while trying to calibrate my system. The source would determine what operatinal choices I had and I didn't make the connection while I was setting up the unit and calibrating.

I will test this theory today and report back but I'm sure that is the problem or at least will answer some of my questions.

I'll be back.

**(I really need to know the answer to this question. Where do you have the volume setting on the sub amp? Do you have it maxed or do you have the level where you always had it. In my case I have it set at the 12:00 setting)



[This message has been edited by Martice (edited May 08, 2002).]
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