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#48071 - 08/08/03 05:06 PM 950 / Denon 2900 Setup Question
Benzo Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 4
Loc: Chicago, IL
Based a helpful post from Dollar Bill and a contribution from The Hun I think I have this just about figured out, but I wanted to ask those of you running the 950 / Denon 2900 combo a setup question.

Since both the 950 and the 2900 have bass management for the 6 channel analog you would want to use one or the other, but not both. So I have currently set up as 950 Bass Management off, all speakers set to small and sub on. On the 2900 the filter is set to ON all speakers to small, sub on. This should limit the bass that is set to all but the sub to over 80hz correct?

Follow up question - Would this also do the same for the traditional analog out (L/R) on the 2900 as well. In the setup tips it said these settings will not affect the digital outs so I am guessing yes. In that case there would be no benefit to using these outs to go to the 950 in Stereo Bypass mode as you would not be getting a full range signal, correct?

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#48072 - 08/09/03 02:22 AM Re: 950 / Denon 2900 Setup Question
Kevin C Brown Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 1054
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
I am not familiar with the specifics of the 2900, but the way you want to do it is:

950: switch on the back on.
2900: all large, sub on, no filter

You want the 950 to do all the management for the 6 ch analog input. If you set all small in the player, you have the player doing BM too. I don't think you want that.
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#48073 - 08/09/03 04:55 PM Re: 950 / Denon 2900 Setup Question
Kevin C Brown Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 1054
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
One more thing, the above takes care of all analog BM, but don't forget also to set small/large and crossover settings in the 950 config for the digital BM...
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#48074 - 08/11/03 09:27 AM Re: 950 / Denon 2900 Setup Question
Benzo Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 4
Loc: Chicago, IL
Kevin, thanks fo the reply. Is there any advantage to havnig the 950 do the BM over the 2900 (Other than the fact that if the 2900 is used it will also apply the BM to the traditional (L/R) analog outs?

Thanx -

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#48075 - 08/12/03 12:38 AM Re: 950 / Denon 2900 Setup Question
Kevin C Brown Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 1054
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
I always used the 950's digital BM instead of the player's, the reasons being that the 950 has more flexible BM choices (individual crossovers for the different sets of speakers), no player has DPL II, and no player has the equivalent of the CES modes for a 6.1 or 7.1 speaker setup. So in other words, I only used the 950's analog BM for SACD & DVD-A. IMO, there isn't really any reason to use the player's BM...
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#48076 - 08/12/03 01:11 AM Re: 950 / Denon 2900 Setup Question
DaleB Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 146
Loc: Clovis, CA,US
Then 'delays' would also be set to '0' in the player, correct? Whether using 6 ch analog or a digital input from the DVD player, the delays as well as BM will be handled by the 950.

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#48077 - 08/12/03 08:23 AM Re: 950 / Denon 2900 Setup Question
DollarBill Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 180
Loc: Durham, CT
Quote:
Originally posted by DaleB:
Then 'delays' would also be set to '0' in the player, correct? Whether using 6 ch analog or a digital input from the DVD player, the delays as well as BM will be handled by the 950.


In 6 channel analog, I do not believe the 950's delay settings are active. If you are using the 2900's BM, then make sure you set the delays in the 2900.

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#48078 - 08/12/03 08:29 AM Re: 950 / Denon 2900 Setup Question
DollarBill Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 180
Loc: Durham, CT
Quote:
Originally posted by Benzo:
Is there any advantage to havnig the 950 do the BM over the 2900?

Thanx -


This question is best answered by personal experimentation. I can't remember there being much of a difference. The crossover points are the same, I'm not sure about the slopes.

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#48079 - 08/12/03 10:44 AM Re: 950 / Denon 2900 Setup Question
DaleB Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 146
Loc: Clovis, CA,US
Quote:
Originally posted by DollarBill:
In 6 channel analog, I do not believe the 950's delay settings are active. If you are using the 2900's BM, then make sure you set the delays in the 2900.


Actually, I have a Panny, but yes it would make sense analog outputs would not be affected by delays set up in the player. Thanks!

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#48080 - 08/13/03 12:24 AM Re: 950 / Denon 2900 Setup Question
Kevin C Brown Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 1054
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
Ahhh, it begins to get very tricky if you do set the delays (i.e., *different* distances for speakers) in the player. The reason being is that setting distances guarentees that the sound arriving at the listening position is in phase. But it is purposefully put out of phase heading to your power amps to allow it to arrive in phase where you sit. OK, so if that is true, then you are sending out of phase material to the 950, which is then doing the analog BM thing, and *then* you are mixing out of phase info into the sub/LFE channel. (I.e., in this particular case, "out of phase" doesn't mean exactly 180 degs out, which is worst case, but what it does mean, is simply that not everything is perfectly in phase anymore.)

In the end, you have a choice of 2 relative evils:

1) Set distances in the player and get resulting phase issues in the LFE/sub channel.

2) Don't set distances in the player, and the BM will work correctly, but overall the sound from all the speakers will not be in phase where you sit.

I have always chosen #2, but each person has to decide for themselves in their system which is "worse." Some people depending on their system, room, and setup, might not notice any difference either way.

[This message has been edited by Kevin C Brown (edited August 13, 2003).]
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#48081 - 01/02/04 03:44 PM Re: 950 / Denon 2900 Setup Question
HTphile Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 3
Loc: MA
If the 5.1 channel is a bypass of all the digital domain set up on the 950. Why would setting the speakers on the player affect the phase. Or is it the case that the speaker/system configuration of the 950 is applied to the 5.1 channel input?

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#48082 - 01/02/04 04:41 PM Re: 950 / Denon 2900 Setup Question
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Kevin may be able to answer this better than I can, but I believe the problem lies in the 950's analog bass management being applied to a signal in which some channels have had differing delays applied to them by the source -- so when those "staggered" signals are passed through the analog filters and the low pass info from them combined with the LFE, the low pass information is also "staggered."

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