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#47815 - 10/01/03 12:52 AM My new 950/755 combo - w/Denon DVD3800 too.....
daddy_guy Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/16/03
Posts: 67
Loc: Redwood City, Ca USA
Well, here we go....Please bear with me.....I am trying to figure some things out ....I have just gotten the Outlaw 950/755 combo, and since I needed a new DVD player too (no, really I did...), I bought the Denon DVD3800 player, refurbished ( an incredible player...I am so set with the new Outlaw equipment and the DVD player....yippee kayo kayay!) sorry, ah, anyway..when setting up the Outlaw 950 and the 3800, what are my best options? Set the Pre amp and the DVD player at the same settings?...large speakers, same crossover points....same distances....I am getting a little con-fused...and feeling like a knucklehead..
I have full range speakers all around pretty much...Def Tech 2000 w/built in stereo subs(full range), Def Tech CLR 2000 center channel (full range),
and for surrounds I have Citation 7.3 (freq range 80Hz-18,000kHz), with JBL floor standing L100 for "rear" surrounds (freq. range 30Hz-32kHz), which kinda average out to be close to full range surrounds/rear surrounds....how should I set up? Front speakers large, center large, surrounds and rear large, with subwoofer off......no idea where to switch the crossovers....and bass management switched off.....this should be easy, and if I step back and think about it a bit, I would probably figure it out. But I figured some experienced help would be cool,,,,all internet sales, so no salesman to bug.....This is all so new to me..(been living with 10 -15 year old equipment for a long time now....kinda stepping out of the stone age finally) I want to get this stuff figured out, and reckoned where better to ask than this forum. Any help, or ideas from the Outlaws would be appreciated regarding set up.........Please....anything!!!!
Woooo Doggies!!!

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#47816 - 10/01/03 10:40 AM Re: My new 950/755 combo - w/Denon DVD3800 too.....
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
The Denon can do DVD-Audio, right? For that, I would set all of the speakers on the 3800 to "large", the sub to "on", and then flip the analog bass management on the 950's multichannel input to "on" (disabling any bass management on the 3800's analog outputs and allowing the 950's analog BM to work). For the digital audio output from the 3800, the settings in the 3800 don't matter (it's just passing the original data from disc to output). The surrounds probably should get a crossover of between 100 and 160Hz, and I'd probably tinker with it for a while to see what I liked. The center may be very close to full range, but it might still be good to give it a crossover of 60 or 80Hz (let the subs handle the tough stuff). Depending on how you have the subs in the mains connected, you want to either (1) disable the sub and set the mains to "large" if the subs use the same signal as the rest of the speaker (thereby passing all subwoofer LFE and all low frequency crossover information to the mains) or (2) leave the sub enabled and experiment with setting the mains to "large" and "small" with a crossover around 40 or 60Hz if the subs are connected to the 950's LFE output.

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#47817 - 10/01/03 12:08 PM Re: My new 950/755 combo - w/Denon DVD3800 too.....
bestbang4thebuck Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/20/03
Posts: 668
Loc: Maryland
Whether it is the crossover or the "distance"/timing settings, I would not generally alter/filter/process the signal of any individual channel more than once.

If you are using the analog bypass inputs on the 950, then you may adjust “distance”/timing prior to the inputs. If you are using an input on the 950 that properly adjusts for “distance”/timing within the 950, then the signals should arrive at the 950 without variance in “distance”/timing. If the “distance”/timing on a channel is modified twice in the same signal path, the “distance”/timing will be the sum of the two settings in a single path.

Similarly for crossovers, the best choice is to filter once per signal path. Filtering the same signal path twice at the same frequency will give you a more aggressive roll-off rate. This may cause a “dip” in the response curve at the crossover frequency, perhaps making the blending of loudspeaker and subwoofer components more difficult, and should be avoided unless a very fast roll-off is needed for a special reason. If the same signal goes through two filtering stages at different frequencies, then one would see an uneven roll-off graph with changes in the rate at each frequency. Again, this is something one generally avoids unless there are special circumstances where this would be helpful.

Hope this helps.

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#47818 - 10/01/03 12:50 PM Re: My new 950/755 combo - w/Denon DVD3800 too.....
daddy_guy Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/16/03
Posts: 67
Loc: Redwood City, Ca USA
Makes me think I may have a problem...if both the DVD player and the 950 need info input such as Large/Small, Distance/Crossover, etc., how do I avoid not ending up with having to alter/filter/process the signal of any individual channel more than once.....I never thought about this until now.....don't most newer players have these settings too? Don't we have to "set up" both the Player and the Pre Amp? I am more confused and worried now....how do you "turn off" all the settings on the DVD player...or are you saying to set each piece to the exact same settings....Forgive me for my ignorance...this is all so new to me....I thought my old analog equipment was tricky to set up.....I am feeling a little in over my head at this point....

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#47819 - 10/01/03 01:16 PM Re: My new 950/755 combo - w/Denon DVD3800 too.....
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
It's often not real clear with DVD player manuals, but the DVD player only uses the speaker bass management settings for the analog outputs. By setting everything to "large" and the sub to "on" you can bypass any manipulation even in that case. The digital output of the Denon will be an unmodified signal, drawn straight from the DVD. That way, you can let the 950 handle all of it for you in one place.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

[This message has been edited by gonk (edited October 01, 2003).]
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#47820 - 10/01/03 02:07 PM Re: My new 950/755 combo - w/Denon DVD3800 too.....
daddy_guy Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/16/03
Posts: 67
Loc: Redwood City, Ca USA
The one thing with my system is the Def Techs speakers...built in powered subwoofers with an RCA input for the sub...fed from a "Y" coming from the preamp FR/FL outputs....not using the sub output at all....this way, according to head honcho Chet Pelkowski at Def Tech, I get true stereo subwoofers....it does sound pretty good that way....so subwoofer is always "off"...I never use a sub or LFE output.....
So if I set everything to "large", with the sub "off" will I be OK?? The Denon 3800 also asks for "distance" settings and channel calibration...that's where I start to get messed up.....should I just set everything the same in both units? The only thing is outlaw asks for crossover points too, and the denon doesn't. Sorry to make this an "epic"..
I just need the help..I want to do everything correctly....
Thanks for the help so far....

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#47821 - 10/01/03 03:44 PM Re: My new 950/755 combo - w/Denon DVD3800 too.....
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
First, let's look at DVD-Audio, which will come from the 3800's analog outputs. With no sub, you will want to turn the sub off on the 3800. You will also want to leave the 950's analog bass management turned off -- we're going to count on the 3800 to re-route the LFE to the mains for DVD-Audio (which I hope it will do), and with the analog bass management off at the 950 the five full-range channels will pass through unaltered. Otherwise, the bass would be stripped out of the mains, which would cut the bottom end out of everything. Oh, and the reason that the Denon doesn't ask for crossover points is that it has a single global crossover that is fixed at a preset frequency (probably 80Hz, maybe 100Hz). That's entirely typical of a DVD player's bass management, but the 950 includes a more robust digital bass management system.

For digital output from the 3800, only the controls in the 950 are relevent. You'll want to set the mains to "large" and the sub to "off". This will cause the mains to receive all low frequency signals from other channels as well as the LFE information that the sub would otherwise get. Also, with the mains set to large, the crossover point for them will be ignored (you can still adjust it, but the 950 doesn't use it).

I think that the 950's delay and channel calibration settings apply to the 5.1 analog input as well as the other inputs (somebody out there correct me if I'm wrong), so I would leave the Denon set to 0ft for distance settings (no delay) and +/-0dB for channel calibration (no adjustment) -- as with crossovers, you only want to apply delays once, and if you adjust the trim in two places you'll end up with either too much adjustment on DVD-Audio discs or not enough on everything else.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review
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gonk
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Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#47822 - 10/01/03 05:10 PM Re: My new 950/755 combo - w/Denon DVD3800 too.....
daddy_guy Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/16/03
Posts: 67
Loc: Redwood City, Ca USA
Gonk-
That seems to make the most sense so far.....leave the DVD player at Large, w/Subwoofer off and leave the Denon set to 0 ft for distance settings (no delay) and +/-0dB for channel calibration (no adjustment), and adjust with the 950 ....man, that just seems kinda obvious now.....others must have run up against this problem....I will try out the "Gonk" method.....
Thanks so much, and any other hook up hints will be extemely helpful....I love my new equipment...It will be the first time I have used anything but an analog cable..finally trying out a digital connection...( I am an analog kind of guy....kinda....prehistoric..).I plan to use the 5.1 hook up with PCA analogs, and a PSC for digital hook up with DVD, and a PSC with my old Laserdisc player....a little worried about "digital" connections.....love my analog too much.....it has been a while since I have done anything major to my system....
I knew this would be the BEST place to ask.....
I love being an Outlaw...and being in the company of other Outlaws!!!!!!

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#47823 - 10/02/03 01:59 AM Re: My new 950/755 combo - w/Denon DVD3800 too.....
MidFi-Guy Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 10/02/03
Posts: 5
Does the 950's 5.1 analog direct input process the speaker delays? I was hoping it passed the signal unaltered.
thanks for any clarification.

[This message has been edited by MidFi-Guy (edited October 02, 2003).]

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#47824 - 10/02/03 03:48 PM Re: My new 950/755 combo - w/Denon DVD3800 too.....
bestbang4thebuck Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/20/03
Posts: 668
Loc: Maryland
I just took a glance at the 950 manual and did not see a specific reference regarding delay, or any other processing, when using either stereo bypass or multi-source inputs. If I am interpreting between-the-lines correctly, the delay settings are part of the overall digital processing of the 950, which is bypassed in stereo bypass or multi-channel input situations.

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