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#47260 - 07/15/03 07:17 PM Phono Equip. ???
southpark Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 36
I have a good sized collection of 80's lp's and have no interest in buying "audiophile" vinyl.

My question is, as I put together a new system can turntable, cartridge and phono stage selection help minimize snaps and pops in my record collection which is pressed on used crappy vinyl with old labels etc. mixed in?

Thanks

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#47261 - 07/15/03 07:26 PM Re: Phono Equip. ???
soundhound Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/10/02
Posts: 1857
Loc: Gusev Crater, Mars
Basically no, at least not inexpensively. There are (were?) tick and pop suppressors back in the day, but I can't recall if any are available now.

I had to deal with some noisy records when re-constructing the soundtrack to a movie I worked on a couple years ago. On one Angel pressing, I had the most expensive Sonic Solutions processing done, and in my opinion it made the recording worse overall than before, the life being sucked out of the music.

I have an LP that I actually digitally removed all the ticks and pops from on my workstation, but it took a week of work - something I'll never do again!

If you have to deal with steady state surface noise from an LP, about the only thing you can do is to reduce the high end, but of course this dulls the sound, sometimes unacceptably so.

I would just consider the noise in your records a "feature" and sit back and enjoy - a pitcher of margaritas will help remove some of the offending noise too

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#47262 - 07/15/03 08:02 PM Re: Phono Equip. ???
southpark Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 36
I'm willing to spend about $1,500 on a TT and cartridge but am getting the feeling I might as well save my money and go cheaper.

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#47263 - 07/15/03 09:07 PM Re: Phono Equip. ???
OFCCM Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 84
Loc: Hueytown, Al. 35023
You can get a reasonable TT and Phono System and a manual record cleaning machine for under $1500. A lot of time the pops and clicks are the result of dust and dirt and even with new records you may have residual of cutting causing some build up. I have bought brand new audiphile records that had pops and clicks that were ended with cleaning in my machine. Just another thought. I mix up my own cleaning solution and it is cheap and works. It is not a big secret, everyone and his brother has a cleaning recipe.

If I was starting from scratch today with $1500, I think I would get the Music Hall MMF-7 Turntable as it comes with a very good cartridge and a good arm (list around $1000) and is shipped put together and easy to set up. Also the Project Phono Box which is only $120 and works with mc or mm (Creek, Clearaudio, Music Hall all make one for a little more. The Nitty Gritty Manual Record Cleaning Machine for abut $250. Those are all ballpark new prices you can probably do better, but if not add in shipping and you are right at $1500. That would be a nice midfi Phono system and you could upgrade the Phono Stage later. You can also find a lot of nice vinyl out there dirt cheap. Just a few thoughts.

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#47264 - 07/15/03 09:54 PM Re: Phono Equip. ???
Paul J. Stiles Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 279
Loc: Mountain View, CA, USofA
Depending upon the geometric configuration of the stylus that did the damage to the record, a stylus of a different configuration may result in playback that is much better than you might expect.

For example, some of the new styli, such as hyper eliptical, micro ridge, and other names, may play a larger cross section of the record groove than an older stylus that made contact with the groove in a smaller (and now damaged) area.

As far as hiss, ticks and pops, I agree with Soundhound. The cure is worse than the disease. The operation was successfull but the patient (the music) died.

I have made a few transfers from LP to CD by hooking up the line input of a computer sound card (of course the better the sound card, the better the result) to an output of a preamp. Once the music is digitized, I go and manually edit the .wav file to reduce the amplitude of the large (and periodic: once per revolution of the LP) ticks or pop.

The small ticks and pops that are still present are not objectionable and add a "retro touch" to the music.

Paul

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the 1derful1
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#47265 - 07/15/03 11:03 PM Re: Phono Equip. ???
southpark Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 36
Does anyone have any idea how the phono stage of a McIntosh MX-113 sounds?

I have one and an MC-2100 amp and may just use those to play analog--any thoughts?

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#47266 - 07/16/03 01:19 AM Re: Phono Equip. ???
Kevin C Brown Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 1054
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
OFCCM actually is right on the money for a good place to start for a vinyl system.

And I agree with Paul, in that the best way to get rid of pops and clicks on an lp, is to *manually* edit the wav file. That way, you're not wiping out parts of the real signal indiscriminantly with some generic "pop and click" software removal program.

And Soundhound is always on the money. Actually, I've found that the shape of diamond in the stylus can affect playback quality certainly, but doesn't really do much for any difference for pops and clicks.

Boy, I'm in an agreeable mood today!


[This message has been edited by Kevin C Brown (edited July 16, 2003).]
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#47267 - 07/16/03 01:47 AM Re: Phono Equip. ???
OFCCM Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 84
Loc: Hueytown, Al. 35023
Southpark,

While Kevin is in such an agreeable mood I will push my luck. I had a Mac 110 years ago and I thought it was an excellent tuner and a fair preamp and phono stage. A little warmish. But it was tube and I would rate it higher than the early ss stuff they put out. Now I saw a good deal over on ebay on a almost new Music Hall MMF-5. It is not as good an arm or cartridge as the model 7 but the investment price is a lot lower as the buy it now is only $410 and you might bid and get it cheaper. The 5 gets some good reviews. The guy's feedback is also 100%. A nice way to gauge your interest would be this complete table and your Mac 113 and 2100 amp. If you find you are enjoying then upgrade and sell the table. I will post the link so good luck if you try it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3035354555&category=3283

[This message has been edited by OFCCM (edited July 16, 2003).]

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#47268 - 07/16/03 02:32 AM Re: Phono Equip. ???
73Bruin Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 506
Loc: Torrance, CA USA
Ok. As long as everyone is in such an agreeable mood. I really don't want to put 1500 into a system that I may only use a few times. I have a number of records that are no longer available on CD's which were in excellent condition when I stopped playing them. I would love to be able to transfer them to CD or DVD.

I still have my technics direct drive turntable down in the garage with a Grace 707 tone arm. I have/had a Sonus Blue cartridge (which I can't believe is any good any longer). If possible, I would like to be able to get a new cartridge, and a phono preamp so I can hook it to my 1050. Any suggestions for this and an appropriate audio card for doing the recording/editing?
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#47269 - 07/16/03 03:54 AM Re: Phono Equip. ???
Time_Stands_Still Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/19/03
Posts: 20
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
LP's will always have some background noise and clicks and pops. However a good cleaning machine ( many you can buy or even build yourself ) will help reduce such. One note some clicks and pops are due to static charges as the stylus tracks the record and others due to imperfect or cheap vinyl used during the pressing.

As for cleaning here is my system.

I took a shop vac ( second hand ) and built it into an enclosure ( right now a sturdy cardboard box, later I'll build a cabinet for it.) I made a hole for the hose and to access the switch. I use an upholstry brush, thoroughly washed and cleaned. I wrapped any plastic parts with a chamois to reduce scratching of sorts.

My record holder is a converted Lazy Susan for a spice rack. I mounted the Lazy Susan onto an MDF board. I greased the rollers and then mounted an old LP with a foam platter matt onto the Lazy Susan. I rigged a metal spindle in the middle to mount the LP on and I cut a rubber plug for a bathroom sink with a hole in its centre to slip on top of the spindle to clamp the LP down. I then spray on a mixture of 80% distilled water, 20% Isopropyal alchohal and I use a wide clean paint brush as my scrubber. I twirll the Lazy Susan around as I work the bristles into the grooves. I then take my shop vac set up and vacuum the contents on the LP. It does not get everything and sometimes you need to repeat the process, but It does help clean up and quieten many LPs esp. those second hand ones.

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