That may just be with certin software titles all.....I guess everyone expirence this at one point or another, regardless of the $ amount of their gear.

I've been thru 5 different set-ups (Recievers & Speakers) over the last(9)years. The Highest quality Center would have to be my Klipsch RC3II, My JBL Ncenter coming in at second (both have this problem). The Other speaker aren't even worth mentioning. But, One and I know I'll get Flammed for this.....and I don't care....The Original Bose Lifestyle 12 set-up we had. It never had problems with dialouge. I later sold it cause found many of the complaints that People have about Bose to be true (bass shy, crappy music playback etc etc....and Then The 12 didn't have that "NEW Standard AC-3 Digital" that was due out.

Anyway I think I have two pretty decent center channels. That's why I was starting to look at upgrades. One Company I've Read That does really well in this area, would be Yamaha New Line Of Recievers. They have that eq or center level thingy going on. I've also read that their electronics are actually set-up to produce dialouge better for there language over there in Japan..yada yada et....

I still may order the 950 regardless. As Oaf pointed out there are a ton of new features out since my Pioneer was created. Gotta figure which is more important to me right now a 2ch pre or AV pre.


Thanks for all the comments,
2B

I know I'll get Flammed for this Not here, and I would not dare, after all do not the least and greatest of us often have Bose in the woodpile.

Just kidding I’m all for those who love whatever their system may be. There are many paths and so few lifetimes to explore audio

You bring up a titillating point, maybe SH and the like (professionals) would have some thoughts on the topic. Could it be that your experience with the “Bose Lifestyle” Vs 4 other front ends due to limited frequency response does not ‘pass through’ enough fullness of range from recordings that can muddy dialogue? (And tentatively here) at times HTIB like “Acoustimass” avoids issues of badly uncomplimentary paired speakers, timber-matched speakers, and other interactions, which might need tweaking for optional performance? (Although I’m not too sure if an “acoustimass” set of speakers could be considered timber matched in the strictest sense of the word…just……like unto each other )

I think I understand what your worries are, and what you are trying to inquire into, - and would highly recommend the 950, which handles dialogue beautifully and believe me when I state, very often those who HEAR what the 950 passes through, and what new life it breaths into old collections feel amply repaid, for any occasional tweak on choice of SM, CC Trim, or for the few problem disc/feeds and issues to overcome.

I know I much prefer it over Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, Pioneers etc I have heard. I’d give it a demo and see what you think.


[This message has been edited by Smart Little Lena (edited June 18, 2003).]

The only DVD I ever had a problem with hearing the dialog, and I know others did too no matter what the pre/pro or receiver was, was Star Wars Epsiode 1. I'm still convinced there was some problem in the mastering. I bought it when it came out, but I don't know if there ever was a "rev 2" version.

Regarding calibration, just purchased Ovation's home theater set up dvd. The test signals for the three front channels match the 950's test tone, but are significantly different for the surrounds and backs. The 950's test tones are higher for the surrounds and back than the Ovation's. So which do you recommend I use, the settings based on the Ovation dvd or the 950's test tones? Gotta know, just can't stop tweaking.

I would use the DVD's tones, since this is the source you'll actually be using. You might also want to check out this thread on an alternate, more accurate method of calibration:

http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000042.html

Soundhound, thanks for the link. I remembering reading it but could't find it. Just finished re-calibrating my system using your advice. Still messing around with the sub's trim. Never really had a center channel "muddiness" like the original post, but was surprised how different the two types of test tones were in calibration. And with so many responses about calibrations I thought maybe this could help the original poster and improve my set up. Thanks again!

Well, I compared the 950's test tones with Avia, and I didn't find any channel that was different by more than 2 dBs. I'm personally not that familiar with the Ovation disk...

Kevin:

2db can be quite a bit when you are taliking about the imaging between speakers. I find that mis-calibration of less than 1db is obvious in my system, although admittedly it is used for mixing, so it's more critical that it be calibrated as closely as possible. Overall, I would consider fine-tuning by 2db quite useful! If all your speakers were perfectly flat throughout the full bandwidth, the test tone from the 950 and full bandwidth pink noise would yield the same trim settings. Since no speaker is in fact perfectly flat, it makes sense to exercise and take into consideration as much of their bandwidth as possible, rather than a narrow-band "snapshot" when doing a calibration. This is why professional users do it this way.

Yes Kevin, the difference for the surrounds was off by 2db, the 950 was higher than the test disc. The difference between my fronts and surround is quite apparent and ears can definately hear this difference of 2db. The reason I originally asked the calibration question was to set my system up the way the software manufactures intended their dvds to be reproduced. However, since using the disc's tones for calibration I can tell a difference but not sure if I like it. Things I use to hear in the background on LOR, for example, have gone from occasionally focused to dispersed with just this 2db decrease. Is this the way it was meant to be heard? I just don't know yet, have to get use to hearing my movies like this for a while. On a side note, could the original question of this thread about the dialogue sounding muffled be from either setting the system with too much bass turned up or having the sub turned up too high? I ask this because when I was re-calibrating my system I saved the sub for last and discovered that with it set too high the dialogue was indeed more difficult to hear. Just a thought.

Yeah, but my 2 dB wasn't limited to the rears or surrounds, and was more randomly distributed within my system. It was a range of 2 dB, but think of it as more like +/- 1 dB.